Words from Gina

I can't get over how great this book was. I just want to buy a million copies and hand them out on the street. I have felt so humbled as I have read this novel. My curiosity has gotten the better of me and I've tried to find more information on Sarah Prine. It bothered me that this was "based" on her life, but not her real journals word for word. The real Sarah Prine didn't have time to keep a journal, nor did she have the skill apparently. I just wanted validation that someone really faced each thing that she encountered with that kind of integrity. So I guess fictional or not, I want to be the hard worker, doting mother and loving wife that Sarah Prine was in this book.

In the whole wide world of information on the web, this is the only factual information I could find other than this blog entry by Nancy Turner herself:

The real Sarah Prine is third from the left. Young girl is Nancy Turner's mother at age 11. The tallest lady is Nancy's grandmother, teller of stories and baker of pies, and the lady on the far right is Nancy's great- great grandmother, Roxie Virginia Stockman Reed."

Now, On to the review...

#1--1st person vs. 3rd person narrator
I guess after reading the book narrated by Death, I much prefer 1st person perspective. I like that we know what Sarah's views and feelings are on the matters she faces... I didn't like the way Death interpreted people's actions and why they might have done what they had done. Sarah just stated the facts plain and simply. She didn't judge people unfairly in my opinion, she just followed her honest gut feelings and I think they served her very well. Even in the case of Felicity.

#7--themes: thirst for education, etc.
I don't think it was odd for Sarah to thirst for education like she did. Even in her day. She had an instinct for survival and education was something that would have a hand in her means to keep her family safe. I personally loved how she questioned the doctor's diagnosis and went to find more information on her own. Sure, the outcome wasn't what she had hoped, but she did the right thing and kept all kinds of information at her fingertip even prior to Suzanne's scarlet fever. Also, her realization (per Blue Horse) that education is like a tree... that will stick with me forever.

#2 and #4 together--the heroic in women's everyday lives
I agree with Katie here. All women are heroes. They are! Each of us has a mission in life and each of us has a special work ethic and distinct drive to survive and move forward. It's amazing what we can accomplish in a day, with horrible environments, relationships and whatever else that might make us "fit to be tied" as Sarah would say. I could totally imagine feeling as low as Sarah did after Jimmy died. How did she keep going with a small baby and all that work on the ranch? I think if we each knew what each of us faces, we'd wonder how each of us could move forward as well. But we do and we survive and we are stronger for it.

#9 and #11 together--the relationship of Sarah and Jack
Passionate. Unique. Equal. Unconditional.
I found their relationship so humorous. I could tell they'd eventually end up together because she was always so peeved by him. And even when they were married she'd disown him on every other journal entry. Their chemistry was just wonderful and even though Jack's good-bye was heartbreaking, I knew she'd survive and be fine, just like he did.

My words!

What a delightful read! I not only had the print version but the book-on-CD version, so I got to "hear" Sarah's words as well as read them. I suspect, however, that this double-reading of sorts may have prevented me from seeing Sarah's spelling improve over the course of her story. I would happily read the follow-ups to this story, as Amanda tells me they exist. That makes me happy. For now, I will tackle the questions and wax academic.

1. Had it been written in the third-person, this book would change my relationship with Sarah and the other characters. It's hard to say if those relationships would change for the worse. Would I not feel as close to Sarah if I didn't get to read her, writing nakedly in black and white? In terms of character, there can be a sense of mystery in novels that use the third-person. The reader cannot know all a particular character is thinking. (Of course, the same could be argued for first-person narratives. But first-person points of view do tend to reveal more of an honest character: how she thinks and feels, for one.) Third-persons can leave the reader guessing. With Sarah, we did not have to guess how she truly felt about things. She was so frank in her journal (and with others). On the other hand, third-person narratives can be more illuminating when it comes to action. In this novel, the reader might have more information about what exactly Jack was doing out there in Mexico. We might have gotten more history had this book been written from a third-person point of view. I think I have successfully written in the first-, second-, and third-people (!) in this answer.

2. I don't remember exactly how education changes Sarah, besides the fact that she derives a sense of pride from her academic accomplishments. And, as I alluded to earlier, it may have improved her spelling. Education certainly changes her family; her brother went on to become an architect in San Francisco. Sarah's mentions of the Board of Normal Education and the new university in Arizona lead me to believe that she will further pursue her own studies. It seems to me, though, that her greatest "education" was not academic but experiential. Her life itself was her university. Her classes were not Art History or German, but Economics, History of the American West, Botany, Animal Husbandry. I got a great sense of her awe and wonder toward education, and her accomplishments in life as well as "school" prove to me that her mind was top-notch.

3. A physically handicapped friend (she had no use of her arms and used a wheelchair to convey herself) once complained to her mother on the phone: "I'm not special. I just do what I need to do every day to survive." She was griping about her alma mater's recent invitation to come and speak to graduates at an upcoming ceremony. I compare this attitude (of humility, perhaps?) to that of Sarah's in a way. Sarah had little choice but to do what she did to survive. Fortunately, she had enough steel and wits to make it a success. Did Sarah have determination and courage, as the back of this book describes heroism? I felt she did. She was very resilient. At many points, she could have just given up. But she had this sense of determination that was intense. She just kept putting one foot in front of the other, even though she was scared. And that's courage in my book. As for her mother, it seems like it was self-preservation that led her to isolate herself. She eventually healed. But I have to note that she did so only when someone else (Sarah) "dropped the ball." Her mother had to step up. I think that is how many of us grow: When we have to step up and take responsibility.

4. Sarah and Jack are up there with Jane and Mr. Rochester, Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy. The spark between them was palpable. As for the time-pieces, I guess the obvious answer is that they were always waiting for each other. Sarah had to wait for Jack to come home all the time. Jack had to wait for Sarah to realize she was in love with him. (And also for her husband to die!) I think also they knew their time together was precious. They always had an eye on it.
The book, "The Duchess," was just a fabulous inclusion. It seemed that as long as Jack had the book, he had a part of Sarah. At first, it seemed a sort of insurance policy. He knew how she longed for the book. She would always pursue it. I think, too, the promises and wonder of that single torn page really gave Sarah a sense of hope of things to come, of possibilities. I think her horizon opened tremendously just from that single page. Her sense of wonder, too, at this page, revealed an innocence and tenderness that really made her a lovable character. Consequently, it was a lovable book.

These Is My Words...

I LOVED this book. I would look at it every time I was in a bookstore, but for some reason, I would never buy it. So, thank you Karen for making me finally buy it. I will go ahead and address the questions Karen wanted us to discuss.

1. 1st person vs. 3rd person narration: The question at the back of the book states “…one may feel that Sarah is neither honest with herself nor correctly interpreting others’ actions or feelings.” Well, isn’t that real life? We all live our lives in our own 1st person. We all interpret others’ actions and feelings based on our own experiences. People can experience the same event without experiencing the same event. We all have our experiences, thoughts, knowledge, etc., which influence how we interpret what happens around us and to us. I liked that it was in 1st person. I loved that everyone around Sarah knew that Jack was in love with her, but Sarah didn’t see it? On March 28, 1882, Captain Elliot came to visit. Mama kept telling Sarah to fetch him stuff, but also to comb her hair. Savannah helps Sarah “spruce up.” On July 4, 1882, Savannah “accidentally” slops milk all over Sarah’s work dress, then tells Sarah that her other work dress was covered with mud so that Sarah will have to wear her new dress during another Captain Elliot visit. I learned more about Sarah from how she saw things around her than I would have learned, I think, from an all-knowing third person explaining Sarah.

2. Sarah’s thirst for education: Sarah’s education changed the whole book…literally. Sarah’s diary entries at the beginning of the book are grammatically rough. As she reads and learns, her narration improves. I’m glad Sarah wanted to improve herself – she wasn’t going to resign herself to her lot in life. However, I think Jack said it best (August 28, 1886), “Education doesn’t keep a person from being a fool, and the lack of it doesn’t keep a person from being intelligent.” Seeking education is a good pursuit – however, being educated doesn’t make one smart.

3. The heroic in women’s everyday lives: I think every woman is heroic. Let’s start with Sarah – a couple of events stand out. The first one is when she defends Savannah and her sisters from those filthy men. And although I don’t agree with Ulyssa’s not fighting back, isn’t she a heroine for living her Quaker beliefs even in the direst of circumstances? The second event that show’s Sarah’s heroism is the fact that she eventually forgives Jimmy. He was the person she should have been able to trust the most, but he ended up betraying her (from the beginning). It took awhile, and it took some suffering, but she ended up forgiving him in the end. There’s a paragraph Sarah writes on October 6. 1887: “After I got my bread dough set to rising, I cleared off the table of flour and got out my gun cleaning rags and brushes and oil, and made sure I was ready for trouble.” Sarah had to cook, clean and then “be prepared for trouble.” Although women today don’t necessarily need to cook from scratch or clean their guns, they still need to defend their homes from outside dangers. Mother’s today have the same desires as Sarah, I think, “[o]ur children weigh hard on my heart, and thinking about them growing up honest and healthy, or just living to grow up at all, makes a load in my chest that is bigger than the safe at the back, and more valuable than all the gold inside it.” I don’t have children, but I have the same desires for my nieces, nephews and their children.

4. The relationship between Sarah and Jack: I thoroughly enjoyed the relationship between Sarah and Jack. They were each so independent, yet dependent on their love for each other. It gladdened my heart watching Jack treat her like an equal, not like a possession – not only did Jack treat her like an equal, she acted like an equal. I’m glad that Sarah finally got the experience the kind of love that she envied so much watching Albert and Savannah. I enjoyed watching Jack tease her, I enjoyed the fact that Sarah’s family kept trying to push her into a relationship with him, but she had no clue. The reading group question at the end of the book asks, “What is the significance of Jack and Sarah exchanging time pieces for their wedding gifts to each other?” What do you guys think?

The Book Thief (Karen Buxton)

I'm finally posting again after a very long break. With our move and
all of the things that are to be done, I haven't had much time to
read, but I did slowly make my way through this book. I really
really liked it. I think that I'd now be pretty good at swearing in
German, but I'll refrain.

I thought Gina's comments about listening to the book on CD were
interesting. I don't think that I would have liked listening to a
creepy guy read to me. I read through the author's comments at the
end of the book, and he mentioned that he kept revising Death's
character and personality so that it wasn't so creepy. It's
interesting that the publishers chose someone with such a voice.

Anyway, I loved learning about what it must have been like living as
a citizen in Nazi Germany. I really enjoyed reading the "Children of
the Promise" series for that same reason. Especially post war era in
East Germany.

Personally, I really liked Rosa. She seemed so gruff and angry, but
stereotypically thoses sorts are soft and loveable on the inside.
Hans, of course, was the ideal father figure. He was kind,
compasionate, with an endless ability to love. I don't believe that
he used Leisle as a replacement for his own children, she needed to
be loved, and he needed to love.

I was heartbroken that Rudy died, but prepared for it. I several
times in the book figured that Max and Leisle would find each other
in the end, but the author was never really said that they married.
That was my assumption considering that she spent the remainder of
her life in Sydney. I was left wanting to know more about her adult
life and marriage.

I've had the opportunity to visit Dachau. As I read, I remembered
the feelings that I felt in that place, and wondered how the the
German people felt as they passed by it while it still held
prisoners. It's a sacred place where many people grew to know there
God through their suffering.

I always post so late, that there really isn't anything that I might
add that hasn't been said already. Thanks for the great book picks.

The Book Thief

"They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
~Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)



I'm sorry not to have posted sooner, especially since I am the one who chose the book (yeesh!). This book was fascinating to me and, when describing it to various friends, the best words that I've come up to describe it are just that: "interesting" and "fascinating".


That being said, I have a true confession: I am a notorious End-of-the-Book reader, so to have Death "spoil" the ending for me was WEIRD! lol. Seriously, I went to the back of the book and SURE ENOUGH, the bomb struck, "Papa" died, Rudy died...the devastation occurred, just like Death said. Huh, I thought. And I have to admit, being a notorious End-of-the-Book reader, it DID change the way I read the book--in fact, it took something out of it for me. I know, it's COMPLETELY hypocritical, but true and I'm not really sure why it felt like that. Often, I read the end of the book because (as in the case of the Harry Potters or Eclipse, etc.,) I've gotten so involved (or obsessed!) in the story/characters that I start going a little wonky NOT knowing what's going to happen. So, with this book, KNOWING what's happening from the very very start messed with my head; so, even though I really really liked it, I didn't enjoy reading it as much as I wanted to, if that makes any sense. Probably not, but that's how weird I am. So anyways, it really became a bittersweet read knowing how much Liesel was going to lose at then end, and I had to focus on the hope element that also ran throughout the book.

I enjoyed Death as the narrator (and loved Katie's review using the different breaks that were used...inspired, Miss Katie!) and thought how "interesting" to have that perspective...a third party trying to be detached and yet still emotionally involved telling the story and offering insights and helpful translations! (though I could see where a creepy-voiced Death on the audio would have been distracting to the poetical nuances that Death was so often spouting). The illustrations were a really interesting touch, too, didn't you think?


I think I must have unconsciously selected this book because of its subject matter--it brought back all the stuff I learned when I got my degree in history, as The Holocaust was my area of emphasis. Even then, the topic was is such a dark place to be so immersed and full of sadness that I found myself looking for the bits of light of the era: the Resistance movement, survival stories, common links of humanity. That being said, the book really does effectively illustrate all of that: the lowest levels we can sink to if we don't check ourselves and keep ourselves awake to what is happening around us, but also the startling acts that reveal the very best of humanity that any person is capable of (Rosa).

I felt the book was also true to the feelings that most Germans had--of accepting things that normally would have appalled them, because they seemed to happen, little by little, until it was too late. Also, amid all the denial that was going on was just LIFE...a boy wanting to kiss a girl, friendships, sports.... We get the same way, don't we? Preoccupied in what we are doing, places we need to go, things we need to do, and even the fear of getting involved, that we don't pay attention to our literal and figurative surroundings. Furthermore, the Germans at the time were still recovering WWI's devastation (Death tries to capture that when characterizing Hans, I think) and the world wide Great Depression that affected them not only because they were so in debt after the war, but because there was such loss of life and employment! The atmosphere in Germany seemed to not only crush them physically but emotionally and mentally, so of course Hitler was able to come to power; he seemed like a charismatic light that would indeed bring about change, bring back their sense of "volk" and pride. Lots of his early ideas fit the mood of the people and, especially, became in sync with their need to blame SOMEONE for their plight.

Alrighty then. So now that I've digressed into a mini history lesson, let me just get back on target and say that this book helped me remember a lot and that context helped enrich the book for me.

I read somewhere that Markus Zusak has written other, critically claimed books for young adults, but actually wrote this with an older audience in mind. I think that was evident in the overall mood of the book and think that it might be a bit much for a younger audience to handle (there was, after all, more swearing than I expected...sorry about that if it offended anyone). But I LOVE the Non Sequitur cartoon Gina posted!!!! LOVED IT!!!! Because Liesels' story is much like the tattoo of the number of the old Holocaust Survivor...it helps us remember, and hopefully look at our world around us today. And for that, I enjoyed and appreciated this book.

:) Laurenda

I finally finished The Book Theif

I wish I had actually read this book. I instead listened to it on CD in my car for over a month... as my commutes are no longer than 12 minutes each. Yeah, so it took a long time to "read" the book and the narrator had such a creepy voice, I didn't enjoy the book as much as I think I could have. At the end, he thanked me for listening to the performance. He indeed gave me a performance. With his creepy German accent he would alter his voice for each of the characters in the book. Can you imagine Leisel having a high pitched old man voice? Yeah, it ain't pretty. I'd rather hear a more innocent voice made up in my head as I scanned actual pages of the book.

So anyway, you'll understand why I didn't love the book as much as the rest of you, but I did like it.

I need to buy this book just to reread the beautiful descriptive phrases and words this author uses. Such poetry, really. I was so touched by how Death himself would eloquently describe we humans.

I wasn't convinced that Leisel knew herself so well as a child that she understood every action she would make, though. I think Death was a witness and a major interpreter of what we humans are thinking, more specifically what Leisel was thinking. I hope you understand what I mean. I don't have a book to show examples of times that Leisel would do or say certain things, as a child, and we'd be given an explanation of why she did or said it that way. As if a child knows them self as well as an a middle-age adult. Or maybe I am undermining children... maybe Leisel did understand why she did the things she did. Who am I to judge a fictional character. What do you think?

My favorite character of the book was Hans. He was so warm and unconditionally there for Leisel. I loved how he kept Leisel's secrets, how he was more than a father to her, but the closest confidant. I am sorry to report that Rosa never grew on me. Maybe it was because of the cardboard description of her, maybe it was the creepy German guy impersonating her saying zowchel a million times, I just didn't connect with her lack of affection. Yes, she took care of her family, yes, she hid a Jew, but she still was so hard. I wish I liked her better after a month long getting-to-know-you in my car.

I learned much from this book. I agree with Amanda that it was an education on the people of that time and place, not just facts about the Holocaust. We know what happened from our history classes, but we didn't get a feel for the lives of those innocent Germans that didn't agree with what was happening. This book gave us that!

I can only imagine something so horrific occurring in our modern day, in our country (it was, in fact, their modern day and in their country). It's given me perspective on my own convictions and how far I would go to stand for the right. I hope that I would do what the Hubbermanns' did for Max. I would hope that if my religion was questioned and they came for all the Latter-Day Saints, that I would suffer and even die standing up for it.

Click to enlarge.

The Book Thief or The Tear Maker?

I finished reading The Book Thief on the airplane the day that our co-worker Curtis Cloud died. I couldn't help but wonder if the narrator "Death" was there with Curtis and what color the sky was. And at the thought of this, combined with the fictional deaths of Rudy, Mama and Papa, I had the tears flowing and no kleenex in sight. I had to use the cocktail napkin from my drink to sop up the tears and mascara.
How long did it take anyone else to know who the narrator was? I had to re-read the first 2 short chapters again just to get that understanding but from there I throughly enjoyed the short style of the chapters and the oftentimes humorous but telling asterisk marked statements from Death. I was also struck by the thought that we don't often hear the side from the Germans in Nazi Germany during this time. Most of us have read Anne Frank and other stories that show us the Jewish or outcast viewpoint. I am again amazed at how the power of persuasion and fear can make humans forget their innate goodness and commit attrocities in the name of righteousness.
Liesel had a horrible life and I can imagine that her story happened to many people including those that belonged to the Nazi Party. I was struck by Frau Hoptzanful (sp?) and that for all of her heil Hitlers, she lost her 2 sons and her own life. It didn't matter what side she was on, Death takes no sides in war.
Argh, I didn't mean this to be a diatribe about War and the horror of it. I loved this book and I found many parts that were funny and heartwarming. Such as Rudy's love of Jesse Owens and how he ran painted in coal just to be like him. I loved the interactions between Liesel and Rudy, Liesel and Papa, Liesel and Mama, pretty much any interaction with Liesel. Who else wanted to know more about what happened to Liesel after the pivotal moment of the airraid? We got a lot of before the bombs but not a lot of the after. I want to know how Liesel went from the Mayor's house to apparently working for Mr. Steiner and then her relationship with Max. Did she marry Max? Who else thought she should marry Max?
Again, I love this book and I learned a lot about this time period but in a very human and contextual way, not in the history book sort of way.

The Book Thief

I thought this was a painfully beautiful book. Death talks about that at the end of the book actually- which I thought a little cocky of the author but still true. Death says, "I wanted to ask her how the same thing could be so ugly and so glorious, and its words and stories so damning and brilliant. " The truth behind it comes from the contrast of human actions. There are the cowards and the vicious. There are also the heroes who are all the more heroic in the face of crisis and danger.

I was struck by how precarious a position the Hubermanns were in . While I can't understand how a nation ever let their hate get to this point I do understand why at that point so few were willing to take action. I am amazed by those like the Hubermanns were willing to risk the lives of their families to save a few souls. I hope that I would do the same. I hope that I would prevent the situation from getting that bad in the first place. I was amazed at how quickly the people would turn on each other. I thought it most revealing when it talked about how Rudy's dad felt about the Jews being kicked out and when Hans jr. voiced his opinions. You could hear the propaganda that spouted fear. I thought it interesting too that kicking the Jews out took away Herr Steiner's competition and also his paying customers. The war furthered that even more. So what he had originally feared ( no work) came to pass because they kicked the Jews out. Hans Jr. was exceptionally brutal especially because of the contrast between him and his Dad. He is quoted as saying,"It's pathetic - how a man can stand by and do nothing as a whole nation cleans out the garbage and makes itself great. " It reminded me of the rhetoric against illegal aliens in our country. Now don't get me wrong- I do think that we need to protect our borders better. But blaming all of our country's problems or our personal financial troubles on a group of people gets a little too close to what the Germans did to the Jews and anyone who helped them. At least that's how it started. Indifference and the building of fear kept it escalating. I'm thankful for the many opinions in our country and the loud voices that keep us on the straight and narrow- for the most part.

Anyway I enjoyed this book. I enjoyed it's perspective though it was very hard to read at times because because of the tragedy of it. I've been having weird dreams where we need food storage ever since. I think it's a combination of things making that happen but still... it's good advice to myself in my sleep. :) We are having a preparedness expo this weekend where I plan on gathering lots of good info.

These Is My Words

Karen would like us to focus on the following questions for the review of These Is My Words...

There are 12 discussion questions at the end. I would like to propose that we focus on the following questions in the order listed.

#1--1st person vs. 3rd person narrator
#7--themes: thirst for education, etc.
#2 and #4 together--the heroic in women's everyday lives
#9 and #11 together--the relationship of Sarah and Jack

The Book Thief

* * * Death as the Narrator * * *
A intriguing literary tool, providing powerful
insights into human nature while still being
(somewhat) detached from human follies (“I guess
humans like to watch a little destruction”).

I found everything about this book to be captivating – the narrator, the way the chapters were broken up, the use of the * * * breaks * * * to further explain detail, but mostly the characters. I grew to love the characters – some, of course, being easier to love than others – Hans, the mayor’s wife, Rudy, Liesel and Max, and even Rosa – who stood by her husband in his quest to do the right thing.

I marked up much of this book. I loved the way the author described everyday, mundane things – using unique adjectives, using adjectives in direct opposition to what is being described, or giving inanimate objects movement. Examples:
“shivering snow,” “chips of rain,” “He smiled loudest… ,” “, shivered like the future,”
“A gang of tears trudged from her eyes… ,” pg. 28
“…due primarily to the brute strength of the man’s gentleness… ,” pg. 36
“Hans Hubermann wore a face with the shades pulled down. ,” pg. 63
“The horizon was the color of milk. Cold and Fresh. ,” pg. 175
“[Liesel could…] taste the human flavor of [Max’s] words. ,” pg. 218
“The words landed on the table and positioned themselves in the middle. ,” pg. 330
“…she woke up tasting the sound of he accordion in her ears. ,” pg. 358
“Rudy’s voice reached over and handed Liesel the truth. For a while, it sat on her shoulder, but a few thoughts later, it made its way to her ear. ,” pg. 364
“When [Papa] looks at me and smiles and breathes, I hear the notes. ,” pg. 527

I’ve always been fascinated with WWII, and greatly angered by it, as well. Each time I study it, read about it, or whatever, I think of three questions: 1. What causes that kind of hatred against an entire group of people (slaves in America, the Civil Rights movement, etc.)? 2. How can that many people be influenced by that kind of hatred? 3. What would I have done if I were a German during this time? I hope I would have been like Hans – disgusted with what I saw and wanting to do the right thing, no matter the risk. Another thing that amazes me about WWII is what people could live through. Max spent months locked up in a house, never going outside, afraid for his life – but yet, he was living.

Death gave us a lot of information in advance, which added to the bitterness of the story (“Of course, I’m being rude. I’m spoiling the ending… ,” pg. 243). Rudy’s a great example. Death foretold what would happen to Rudy before we were done learning to love him. After knowing what happened to Rudy, each moment he spent with Liesel was bittersweet for the reader.

My final question is this: What color will everything be at that moment when [death] come[s] for [me]?

It is finished

Finishing "Eclipse" was a relief to me. At this point, I am little over Bella and her twisted relationship. I don't call it twisted because he's a vampire. I call it twisted because she turns too often to guilt-tripping and codependent behaviors. Even the boys' manipulating turns me off.

I don't like how Bella thinks she has power over everyone else's feelings; none of us does. We are all responsible for our own. And all this "I can't live without you" talk is too sappy and nonsensical. Is the author trying to paint a relationship based on "true love"? If so, I think she needs a lesson on it herself. (Not that I know exactly what it is, but it seems like it's less clingy than what's pictured here.)

Another point: I am glad Bella is beginning to glimpse the real repercussions of what might happen if she becomes a vampire. I am surprised that that is not addressed more deeply -- or has not yet been. This willingness to give up her humanness, her "natural" soul, her family, all she knows, for this one man again hints of codependency.

On brighter notes: I am glad to see the author is improving in describing action scenes. In her past books, she's just skipped over them, beginning chapters with Bella waking up after all the action has taken place. And I liked the description of how the werewolves came to be. That story might even make up a novel all its own.

I am somewhat interested what will happen to Bella, Edward and Jacob in the future. But I am not holding my breath.

Final point: When Bella is menstruating, do you think Edward and the rest of the Cullens avoid her? Why has not the author delved into this?

Some of My thoughts on Eclipse

Sorry. I was on vacation for the last week and a half. Almost everyone I talked to on vacation liked the books. ;) Well everyone liked them but everyone argued about the best ending and about the characters. It was fun to hear other opinions and discuss the book in person. I think that we would have a lively discussion in person. That's one of the things I love about the book. Everyone has different allegiances because she hasn't made anyone a complete monster. Not all werewolves are bad, not all vampires are bad, not all humans are bad and yet each of them do monstrous things at various times.

I loved the relation between the vampires and the werewolves. I hope we will continue to find out more about that in the next book. I thought it was interesting that the werewolves believe they were created as protectors and the vampires simply sees them as volatile monsters. I don't understand the Cullens hatred of them. Especially when they are protecting people. The Cullens should support that. I liked the tenuous relationship that forms between them because they are fighting for the protection of their community(which for the vampires only means Bella).

I liked hearing Rosalie and Jasper's stories. I'm glad that Bella heard them. I still feel that Bella is too young to be making the decisions that she is making. I think her aversion to marriage showed that. I'm glad that in this book she struggled with her decisions and her eyes were opened up a little bit. I'm not convinced that she made the right decision. I can't help feeling the same sadness that Jacob and Rosalie do that Bella is going to give up her mortal life and experiences. I feel like she is eating to Fruit of the Tree of Eternal Life before she gets the chance to live and grow. True, she still will have the chance to grow and change- both Jasper and Edward have- but it takes a lot longer and she will be denied important experiences like the opportunity to have kids and family and friends(she will be limited to only the Cullens). I feel like the more mature person would have chosen the life with Jacob. The life with Edward may seem glamorous and he is a wonderful guy but it is extremely limited. The cons are greater than the pros. I think that Jacob has the potential to be as wonderful as Edward and I think her life would be happier because it would be filled with the people she loves not just the person she loves. With Jacob she could have taken the time to grow up before making a commitment. With Edward she is forced into an immediate decision(that's not his fault). The only reason that she shouldn't choose Jacob is because he didn't imprint with her.

I think that Edward is a drug to Bella. As a vampire he has been described as the perfect predator and part of that is his attractiveness to his prey. It is not something he controls but it is part of who he is. It is why he is so irresistible to her. She is like a drug to him too. They tend to be self-destructive together because of their two different worlds.

Ideally Edward would find a way to become Mortal and then Bella could truly choose. Then she wouldn't be blinded by the rush to stay young and beautiful. Then she wouldn't be blinded by his amazing good looks and vampire pheromones. Then she could enjoy all of life's experiences with him by her side. Then she would be making a true life decision rather than the fantasy one.

Not quite finished

I had to first read the other 2 books in this series. I am still working on Eclipse. I will post when I am done. I'm trying not to peek ahead at everyone's postings here!

Danielle

Eclipse

Ladies,

There are so many things I like about Eclipse. One is the title. How cool is it that Edward, the vampire, the cold creature of the night, eclipses Jacob who was Bella's sun! (see pages 599-600--Jacob, "He's like a drug for you. . . I would have been the air, the sun." Bella, "I used to think of you [as my personal sun]. You balanced out the clouds. . . ." Jacob, "The clouds I can handle. But I can't fight with an eclipse.") No sun can. The literary technique is just cool.

Second, as much as Bella's indecision about Jacob and Edward drove me crazy (she really acts like a self-centered teeny-bopper at times), I think I would have been madder if her decision to become a vampire had been made easily. This book really makes her LOOK: She is going to give up the ability to have children (Rosalie's story). That is HUGE. She is going to have to learn to control incredibly strong desires to do horrible things (Jasper's story and the new vampire, Bree). She really has to look at this. I know she dismisses it, but Edward is concerned about her SOUL. Her indecision finally makes me believe that she really understands that she is going to have to SACRIFICE something to be with Edward (page 589). If she hadn't valued Jacob, it would have been no sacrifice.

Third, Bella finally grows up and begins to think of others. Her decision to have a wedding for her parents and for Alice, her decision to be clear and honest with Jacob even if it hurts her, and most important, HER decision to wait to have sex until she and Edward are married (she finally cares about HIS soul page 620) demonstrates some maturity. She is going to need it to become a Cullen. (I know that the descriptions of her physical attraction to Edward are breath-taking and that is not so good for the target audience. I was grateful that Bella finally made the right choice. I can only hope that the teen-age target audience got the point that she was really making the BETTER choice no matter how strong her desires were.)

So, even though it drove me crazy, I think the conflict of Bella trying to figure out who she really is and who she really wants to become was important. (The two magnets she was trying to force together were two parts of herself, p. 608)

For those of you who don’t know, my husband, Rod, read the book as well (as did two sons and two daughters-in-law). We now have a family blog about this book—great conversations. I wanted to include Rod’s idea that the best way for this story to end would be for Edward to become mortal. Meyer hints at this on page 273 when Edward says, "If there were any way for me to become human for you--no matter what the price was, I would pay it." Interesting thought. (At that point in the book, he was the one making the sacrifices.)

Finally, KT . . . I really appreciated your sarcasm. You are right. Bella really doesn't appreciate what she has. Edward's willingness to sacrifice everything to see that she is truly happy is so intense. I can't wait to read the book from his perspective (if Meyer still plans to write it). I also look forward (I think) to the sequal, New Horizons (?) I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

I loved Eclipse!

I feel so warped being taken to Forks for 3 consecutive super-long books. It's been almost a week and I still can't snap out of that world. Once I think I am back to normal, I'll run into someone that has read all the books and get all wrapped up in it all over again.

Seriously, something is wrong with me! I relate to Bella on too many levels. I read Katie's post on Monday and thought, "Man, I can't write a review now! I've felt that kind of love for two people, having to choose one. She'll think I'm a total bimbo!" So there you have it. Once upon a time, I did have those deep torn feelings that Bella had for two special people (and similarly, they were both as understanding of my feelings for the other party - that good-bye scene with Jacob tore me up). Maybe that is why I am so warped by these books. It's taken me to a place I miss and don't want to think about at the same time. It's so surreal I can't even begin to explain myself.

So anyway, I appreciate Laurenda enlightening us on the "imprinting" question posed by Katie. I had D sitting next to me when we read Katie's post Monday night and we both agreed that he couldn't have imprinted on her, otherwise he would of had to let her know. It couldn't have been a secret anyway because Edward can read the pack's minds. He didn't keep any of Jacob's secrets from Bella.

And speaking of Edward, I am still in love with him... Yeah, he took a step back when being seduced and yeah, he let Bella figure out Jacob by herself, letting her go to La Push now and then (and later allowing Jacob to be the "space heater" inside her sleeping bag - YIKES). I don't think he was playing the manipulative game like Jacob was though. I seriously think Edward is just wise and mature enough to see the good intentions in people/creatures. Sure, he grew and matured because of the situations Bella put him in, but I think he would give the benefit of the doubt in any case. I doubt it has much to do with his age, but his ability to read minds. This in turn has made him a forgiving and compassionate character in this book

Thanks, Katie, for choosing this one. I didn't even start the original book assigned and it sounds like I didn't miss too much.

Eclipse...

Hello Ladies!

Okay, I have to start off by saying that I read this book like a crazy woman when it first came out and was fit to be tied that I had no one to talk to about it when I was done! lol. So, needless to say, I'm glad Katie chose this one (though I did read about a third-ish of Calamity Physics and its end, for which I can review it with this: GET TO THE POINT, Blue!!!!! Yegads. That girl cited more sources than half the academic history journals I had to read during grad school!!!! It dragged down the book and the story so much that you really didn't care who was killed and for what reason. I DID however, find the "final exam" at the end of the book funny. And that's my review of that book.)

Alrighty then. Eclipse. I, too, really liked this book because I was so curious as to how things were going to turn out and I like Stephenie Meyer, as a person (I've seen a couple of the interviews she's done for Borders, GMA, etc.) and as a writer.

That being said, man was I miffed when I was done reading it the first time (I'm currently re-reading it)!!!! In fact, I was like, "ARGHHHHH!" I felt that SM had made Jacob too much of a character in this book, had neutered Edward, and had notched up the whine factor for "poor" Bella. In fact, Bella was so guilt ridden and angst filled that at times I wanted both Edward and Jacob to leave her alone so she could find a good therapist!!! The girl, seriously, has issues (more than just hanging out with vampires and werewolves). She is too much a people pleaser for me to really feel that she knows what she wants at the tender age of 18...and this is spoken from a mega-people pleaser who is still reeling from an unfortunate photo event between my divorced parents at my wedding.

So, here's some of the things that I didn't like: I didn't like the fact that Jacob kissed Bella into recognizing she really LURVED him too. I should have known when we had the Wuthering Heights analogies that NO GOOD was going to happen to this little love triangle. But seriously, he had to kiss her before she realized she LOVED him? WHAT was THAT about????? I think that she kissed him and actually had, quite literally, a heated response; I don't know that I would classify that as love. As Katie said, WAY too Harlequin Romance for me. Once again, if Bella was so out of touch with her feelings for him that she had to be forced into admitting them...THERAPY! That's what she needs before she really commits to EITHER of them! And truthfully, I couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that Jacob was only 16, though he looked 25, and wasn't being considered a near date-rapist when he was forcing her to kiss him. That wasn't romantic to me at all. Yes, he acted foolish like a 16 year old in love for the first time, but the fact that his character is physically so strong made all that too creepy for me somehow. Just as Edward was seriously over-protective of Bella and often over-reacted, Jacob came off as some bad cologne that was sprayed on too strongly for my personal taste.

And Edward...of the three, I probably had the least problem with his character because I felt that he at least made some emotional progress. You really do have to allow the person you love to chose and he did that. I'm glad that he stuck to his guns about his morality (being that kind of guy). I'm still a little put off about Bella being so opposed to marriage, and at the end, I wanted to see her really embracing the idea of being married to Edward as opposed to the idea of having the wedding to say good-bye to friends/family and to please Alice and Edward.

Bella...was shrill and whiny to me. In Twilight, though she seemed klutzy, at least she seemed strong emotionally. Now, I realize that she's been through alot. But her character kind of regressed to me. I was often rolling my eyes at her antics. As I'm typing this, I think that the word that keeps coming to mind was that Bella was consciously selfish. She knew it and refers to it several times in the book, but still chooses that selfishness. Maybe that's what bugged me. I understand that in the end she was supposedly choosing, but I was mad at her character for agreeing with Jacob that he was more like "sun" and "natural" stuff, whereas her love and need for Edward was likened to a "drug". ugh.

I should mention that I'm writing this practically a MONTH after the book came out. Since I first read it, I've lurked on the Twilight Lexicon to see what other readers thought and I've read SM's website. She recently posted some FAQs about Eclipse that she heard repeatedly on her book signing tour, and she says that Jacob did NOT imprint on Bella. She agreed, too, that Jacob was playing dirty with Bella because in his mind, he was not only trying to win his first love's heart, but trying to save her life. And Bella had to go through all that so, as Katie and Karen had discussed, so she could see and recognize her choices and truly make the one that she wanted. All that extra input has been helping in this second reading, but still...I find myself rolling my eyes.

All that being said, I actually did like the book--quite a bit. I enjoyed that once again, I could totally submit and enter the world of Forks quite happily. I liked all the new things that we learned about Rosalie and Jasper, warring vampires and how to combat them, and about the werewolves in general, and I thought the conversation/negotiations about waiting until marriage was part of a relationship, especially when you have two moral compasses/generations at work. And most importantly, eyes rolling aside, I'm still excited about the next book. A year seems like a long time.

Great choice, Katie!!!! :)

Eclipse

I loved Eclipse, but I have serious problems with it. I'm not sure I liked it as much as Twilight and New Moon. Bella seemed much more whiny to me, and more wishy-washy. She seemed much stronger in Twilight. Maybe the trauma caused by Edward's leaving in New Moon has had a more profound effect than I thought.

Maybe I'm just a bitter old lady, but, poor Bella, choosing between two guys (please note the dripping sarcasm), and making them both suffer. Is that realistic? Or is it more like a harlequin novel? I had big problems with this. I spoke with Karen about it, and she mentioned that Bella has like Jacob in order for her to have a choice, to CHOOSE life as a vampire with full understanding of what she's giving up. I can kind of see that. However, at the same time, how can Edward be her soul mate if she is in love with Jacob...if Edward's her soul mate, how can a part of her (even a small part of her) prefer Jacob and wish that it was his arms she wanted to be in.

Laurenda sent me a link to a couple of interviews with Stephenie Meyer to help me come to terms with this Edward/Jacob dilemma. One discussion took place at a Borders in Sunset Hills, MO. To quote Meyer:
"If she (Bella) hadn't fully explored the idea of staying human, I don't think I'd be a very responsible parent - and I sort of feel like I'm her mom - to let her go ahead and choose to be with Edward without really looking at all the options." So, Karen hit Meyer's reasoning dead on. Still doesn't mean I like it.

I didn't like Jacob comparing Eward to a drug, and himself to the air and sun (yes, he's a teenage boy and has a lot of growing up to do).

Based on something my niece said, I want to pose a question. She asked whether Jacob would imprint and if he does, how will Bella react. My question is, what if he already has imprinted, and it's Bella? We only have Jacob's word that he hasn't imprinted. If he's imprinted with Bella, and he knows she's in love with Edward, would he tell her? I know he's had no shame in manipulating her in other ways, but imprinting is very serious to werewolves, and would that rejection be too much?

The Late Stranger Review

I can't say anything more intelligent about this book that hasn't already been said. Thanks for your reviews, everyone.

I didn't enjoy the book... I was quite confused with this character and his lack of emotion. I am very grateful the book was short so I didn't have to read 500 pages of gloom and facts about his surroundings that didn't matter much.

I am curious about Camus' other works... he did win a Nobel Peace Prize for Literature, so some of his writings MUST be good and uplifting, right?

The Strange Stranger

I took this opportunity to read The Stranger in the original French. It was still very strange. Maybe it was all my English Lit classes in high school, but I kept asking myself "who is the stranger?" Does it refer to the Arab killed on the beach? Or does it refer to M. Mersault? If it does refer to Mersault, who is he a stranger to? To the court, to society, or to himself? I think he is a stranger to himself. The only opinion or attitude that he clings to is that he has no regret for killing. How many times throughout the book did he say "ca m'est egal?", or "I don't care." Do you want to get married? I don't care. Do you want to write this letter for me? I don't care. I was SOOOO frustrated with his attitude of "I don't care." Coupled with "I don't care" was his desire to make others happy or understand him. He had no part in what his friend, Raymond, was doing, but Mersault states several times that he did things to make Raymond happy.

I was surprised to read that "[a]lthough he is often associated with existentialism, Camus preferred to be known as a man and a thinker, rather than as a member of a school or ideology. He preferred persons over ideas. In an interview in 1945, Camus rejected any ideological associations: “No, I am not an existentialist.. Sartre and I are always surprised to see our names linked....”

The writing the "L'etranger" seemed very choppy: (I'm translating) "I ate fast and had coffee. Then I went home and slept a little bit...I wanted to smoke. It was late." Just factual statements, emphasizing the lack of emotion.

How odd is his line after killing the Arab (again, translating): "I understood that I had destroyed the balance of the day." Just weird. I did mark several pages that either had beautiful writing, or just strange occurrences.

I like how Camus described the friend or Mersault's mom at the beginning - who was crying but his face was so wrinkled, tears couldn't flow down. Or, at that fatal beach how the sun breaks into shards when hitting the sand. Just fascinating.

There's a whole paragraph that I found interesting, when Mersault is in prison: "I didn't understand why I was deprived of [smoking]. Later I understood that this was part of punishment. But at this moment I was used to not smoking, so this punishment no longer was punishment for me."

I didn't feel sorry for the protagonist - I was just confused that he couldn't understand what was going on around him. I'm all for being a non-conformist, being yourself, being original, but never to the extent that morals and laws no longer pertain to me.

My review is probably as fractured as the book. I can't say I liked it, but I'm glad Danielle chose it. Thanks!!

Amorality?

I felt like The Stranger exemplifies a prevailing snobbery in academia. It is an attitude that nothing in this life matters and those that try to believe in any higher order or in the case of Camus any order at all are fools. At first I wasn't sure if Camus was being sarcastic or if he truly believed that nothing matters in life. So I looked it up on Sparknotes and he was being serious.


I think his book contradicts itself. According to Camus, to quote sparknotes, "Though The Stranger is a work of fiction, it contains a strong resonance of Camus’s philosophical notion of absurdity. In his essays, Camus asserts that individual lives and human existence in general have no rational meaning or order. However, because people have difficulty accepting this notion, they constantly attempt to identify or create rational structure and meaning in their lives. The term “absurdity” describes humanity’s futile attempt to find rational order where none exists." Meursault is irrational and amoral. The world around him however is not. As far as I can see the world around him, except for his friends, acted rationally and morally in response to his actions. Everyone is appropriately shocked at his lack of feeling. Contrary to Camus, I do not believe that their shock comes from the fact that they are less enlightened than Meursault. I believe that they are more enlightened than him. They understand the importance of connections and feelings. I related to the shock of the magistrate at his lack of an explanation for his actions. I was annoyed with Meursault for never choosing his actions. He claims to be amoral but I don't believe in amorality. I believe in choice and accountability of actions. Meursault is a wimp. He lets life happen to him and then is surprised (however briefly- he did not expect to be convicted) about the outcome. I can respect him having the belief that nothing really matters but I prefer it Hemingway style where you make up your own code of behavior because people still matter. This quote of his drove me nuts (it is Meursault reflecting on talking with his lawyer about his crime): "He left looking angry. I wished I could have made him stay, to explain that I wanted things between us to be good, not so that he could defend me better but, if I can put it this way, good in a natural way. Mostly, I could tell, I made him uncomfortable. He didn't understand me, and he was sort of holding it against me. I felt the urge to reassure him that I was like everybody else, just like everybody else. But really there wasn't much point, and I gave up the idea out of laziness. " To me it sums up Meursault. He just wants to feel good ("I explained to him that my nature was such that my physical needs often got in the way of my feelings") and he is too lazy to do anything. He also thinks that he is normal and perhaps better than normal for his enlightenment. I think the book proves that he is not like everyone else as he is trying to claim. Very few people understand him. I feel sorry for him.

I first began to question Meursault as a narrator when he didn't notice that the nurse with his mother's coffin was missing her nose. That's when I thought that maybe Camus was being sarcastic. I was sad when I realized he wasn't. But I think his book still works as proof that his theories on life are unworkable in real life. Order does exist in this world. Truthfully it is much more ordered than we realize. Humans are unpredictable and volatile and often irrational but the whole universe is not such.

The Stranger...

Hello ladies:

I have to say that I have not read this months book...my apologies, but I am very interested to read all that you have to say about it.

I did go and listen to the bit on Diane Rehm's show and it sounded interesting. I was trying to understand better exestential (sp.) literature, and I really wasn't getting it. I guess my brain is too caught up in the lighter fair...ie, Harry Potter or something similar. What to do, what to do?

I do love reading your opinions...thanks for sharing!


Michelle

'Strange' Days

Hello ladies. If you made it through The Stranger, I would like to thank you. I know it was very different from the last book we read, and I for one had expectations that were not met.

I chose this book because I'd heard about it through one of my favorite radio shows on NPR, the Diane Rehm show. The discussion on the show, lead by the highly respected host, piqued my curiosity. Though I do not regret taking the time to read it, I wish I could say I thoroughly enjoyed it.

The main player, Meursault, was hard -- if not impossible -- to warm up to. He didn't seem to have the "normal" human emotions that I -- as a woman -- like to recognize in others. I was reminded of those old movies from the '40s, where the men drink martinis and the women wear hourglass outfits and say the exact right thing all the time. So prescribed and robotic -- everyone filling his to role to a T and showing no great emotion.

Contributing to this robotic life-view was the fact that Meursault was friends with that girlfriend-beater. This friendship, coupled with the fact that he actually wrote that letter for him, just stunned me. Why would he be friends with such a man? Was he supposed to be this all-accepting, nonjudmental, emotionless sort of superhuman?

On the other hand, I found myself feeling sorry for our hero, especially when he was in the courtroom. All the spectators looked at him like he was a monster, when he merely viewed life differently from them. I relate him to an autistic person, who just hasn't the capacity to express feelings in the same manner the "rest of us" do.

The climactic scene at the end was almost a relief, as it brought this rush of feeling and sheer humanity to the book. I guess the author meant us to feel the difference. Like water tastes better when we are thirsty.

After finishing the book, I listened again to the radio show, which reminded me this was an second-generation existentialist book. According to a guest on the show, existentialism has three major questions:

1. Can we trust reason?
2. What are we responsible for, if anything, as humans?
3. Is there a meaning that transcends history?

For someone who seeks meaning in everything, I found it hard to attach meaning to practically anything in this book because the storytelling was disjointed and dry. I think this prevented me from connecting it to anything real. If that is the point of the book, then it worked on me.

This book did not lead me to study existentialism to any great degree. One thought on religion/faith, though. The priest came all the time to talk with him in his cell. Meursault refused to see him. I have to say I see some sort of valour or honor in Meursault's sticking with his own beliefs (or lack thereof). As I read once somewhere: Faith is a process, not an event. Had Meursault converted "on his death bed," so to speak, it might take some of the "meaning" out of the act. (I've always wondered if people who give their lives to God on their death beds are just acting on fear rather than a conscious decision. I see faith as something that helps me through this life, not the next.)

Hi Ladies! (for some reason, Blogger wouldn't let me post a title...hmmmm)

I've tried not to read any posts/remarks, so sorry if this sounds repetitive. :)

First, I have to say that I'd read "Zippy" right before bed, so I'd often fall asleep with that memoir-like narrative voice in my head, which was pretty surreal, let me tell you. It also made me haul out my own journal and write a few entries (I think I last wrote in it a year ago!!! egads!), so if for nothing else, I really appreciate reading "Zippy" for that reason alone!

Overall, I really enjoyed the book. I was INCREDIBLY moved by the story in the second chapter, I think, where she found a letter her mother had written in her baby book, concerning her illness when Zippy was 5 months old and the friends drove down from Gary, IN, so that her mother could sleep, and that they took her to the doctor and there were only 26 antibiotics (!!!!! Thinking about this now, after this past week when all three of my kids came down with strep throat and I just feel so blessed!) and the resident randomly picked the right one and Zippy survived the night after her mother turned the whole thing over to the Lord. And then I busted out laughing when she noted that after Zippy started talking, her mother wrote that all she had to say was "Please God, give that child some hair," or something like that. CRACKED me up.

I also laughed about her siblings telling her that she was adopted, because (true confession time) I remember telling my younger brother (with my older brother validating it, of course) that poor Herman was adopted because he didn't have to wear glasses and had light brown hair instead of dark brown. And the poor kid believed it, until he went to my mom who told us that, no, she was there, he definitely was NOT adopted. lol. (my mom had all of us via natural childbirth).

My biggest bugaboo was also part of the charm of the book...she recalled her childhood as we all do: in vignettes. I think I wanted more chronological order to her stories, whereas she kind of jumped around (which wasn't so bad until she started reintroducing secondary characters, like that neighbor boy who kidnapped her cat, and that got me a bit confused). However, isn't that how we all remember when telling people of our past? We have a story that leads to another and then another, and then when topics change, we go back in our past to find experiences that relate to the new topic.

I think it's interesting how she touched upon her mother's depression and her father, also like we remember our childhood memories. My own mother suffered from severe and debilitating postpartum depression (back in the day when it wasn't labeled as such) during the same generation and I know that the things that were just normal for me and my siblings were kinda weird for other people and definitely not acceptable for an Air Force Officer's wife. Of course, I know this now. Back in the day, that's just how it was.

I really enjoyed Zippy. As I'm raising my own kids, I wonder what they'll remember of their childhood. Hopefully they'll look back on it with such a kind and compassionate eye. Thanks for suggesting it!!!

A Spitfire named Zippy...

Sorry for the late posting, folks. I really wanted to get creative and write a post by just quoting Haven words straight from the book. There were so many quotes throughout the book that cracked. Me. Up. Ends up, I'm not savvy enough to pull that kind of cool post together.

Let me share a few quotes that made me laugh out loud anyway. I can't count how many times Ian just gave me looks like I was crazy each time I'd have an outburst. And to my dismay, he didn't even want to know what the fuss was about... I did share the whole camping story though. How Zippy's dad would pack, repack and take the camper for a spin and check the lights again, etc. HILARIOUS!

The Quotes:

"If I could have gotten my nose close enough, I would have inhaled leaded gasoline until I was retarded."

"...but she had not truly known Chicken Love..."

"On the end-of-the-year report card all she was wrote was 'Is disruptive in class. Colors outside the lines. Talks out of turn.' When I showed it to my parents, they read it out loud to me, and my mom said, 'Good for you, sweetheart.' And my dad gave me a little pat on the back."

"Some people liked to go camping even if their daily lives already resembled camping."

"They're going to a convention." -- "Oh, a convention. Would that be for the Society of Drunken Philanderers?" -- "The SODP, we call it." -- "I see."

"Tiger had just tipped over sideways after chasing her own butt for ten minutes."

"It seemed that controlling her bladder was her one, overwhelming priority, because sometimes a little bit of pee would start to come out and she would look sad and shut it off and stand and stand and stand, and then a few minutes later a little bit more pee would come out..." -- "...which made me worried, because as I understood it, dogs did all their breathing through their tongues." -- "Jiggers, honey, why don't you just let all your pee out and then go lay down in the shade?" -- "I'd get under the porch if I were Jiggers. It's hotter than billy-be-doggone bangtree outside."

"...slicker than snot on a doorknob..."

"I had to tip over a little for laughing at the retarded gypsies, then straightened back up as I realized I was laughing at my own family."

"Plus you were born with a tail." -- "We had it removed so your pants would fit. Also we didn't want you to suffer in school."

"...nasty old bat."

"Well, she for sure knows you are not a Christian because you don't even go and pretend."

"...I'm going to turn you upside down and spit in your butt, are we clear?"

"...even though diamonds are girls, threes are boys." -- "Eights were completely girls, but the black eights were girls who were maybe a little too good at sports." -- "For good measure I put all the boys back in the box with the Joker, where they belonged."

"Mabel Simpkins told me today that the Jesus who died at Easter was the same one who was born at Christmas. Is that true?" -- "I just laughed at Mabel and told her she sure wasn't making a fool of me. I know Easter comes before Christmas."

"It was so pretty, I wanted to break it."

"...let me suggest some nice, fuzzy tights, the kind that don't go all the way to your crotch, but stop just in the middle of your thigh."

I also enjoyed the stories of Julie and how Zippy could read her mind and spoke for Julie... Even when she had to poop, Zippy asked the teacher if she could go.

I absolutely loved the Father's Day story where Zippy gets her dad a new dog from the hippies. It was so touching "it would have made a pirate weep."

Zippy

Ladies,

Sorry I am late. I finished the book on time (sort of), but spent the last week in Utah with lots of family, including Katie. I really had a great time, but no spare minutes to post my review. Anyway, here it is:

Having been a teen-ager in a small town (American Fork, UT) during the 60's, I enjoyed this book on one level as a great trip back in time. (I LOVED the photos.) Actually, the setting and many of the events reminded me of my own childhood in the 50's. (Kimmel said Mooreland was a bit behind the times.) I kept writing down my experiences in the margins of the book as Zippy's experiences triggered my memories. My "pixie" haircut. My pair of red patent leather shoes with stacked heels. (I saved my money for weeks to buy them.) The arrival of my very first order of 45 rpm records. (My mother created a treasure hunt through the entire house to heighten my excitement!) I remembered the German shepherd in our neighborhood who killed our neighbor's little dog while I screamed hysterically on the front porch. I remembered when the "Fry Daddy" made its debut. I remembered smells that transport me instantly to some place or event in my past, like the smell of the service station on the corner or the clean chalkboards and floors in my elementary school on the first day. I remembered the Mickie Mouse Club and the blonde Mouseketeer named Karen. I remembered the red and black striped "Suzie longlegs" that my dad brought back from a business trip. I also remembered the "gross" shoes he made me buy when my mom had him take me shopping. I remembered how scary Maleficent was and that Marcus Welby, MD was a TV favorite. I remembered dresses that my Grandma wore, medical breakthroughs like polio vaccines, Avon lipstick, polyester pants, drive-in movies with the big silver sound box that hung over the window, Saturday matinees at the Coral Theater (25 cents), my junior high (the "old" high school) with the detached lunchroom and the candy store adjacent to the school, my mother pin-fitting a jumper to me, and the list goes on. (You can tell this book really took me back!)

But there are other things that made this book a good read besides nostalgia. First, Kimmel's writing style was so genuine and entertaining that I often laughed out loud! She did a great job of capturing a child's outlook and enthusiasm.

She also deals with some very profound issues. (Any of the 16 questions at the back of the book would be fun to discuss with you all.) Zippy's own religious awakenings (Easter--page 242) and her parents' differing approaches to things spiritual (from her dad's church in the trees to her mom's consistent attendance at church) really raised some important questions. I thought it was interesting that the book ended at Christmas with the comment, "Thank you for not losing faith."

The family dynamics dealt with important issues as well. Zippy matter-of-factly lets the reader in on Dad's gambling/smoking/compulsive behavior and Mom's depression/escape from life/financial problems. I found that the way Zippy's older brother and sister treated her really bothered me. For years, I have wrestled with when teasing becomes plain meanness and this seemed like a lot of meanness to me. (And she STILL looks up to them.)

I appreciated the things that made me think. I didn't appreciate the sick/dark side that Kimmel portrays using the neighbor family that abused animals. I wished it hadn't been part of the book. (Do all books today have to have something sensational in them?) When the rabbit was actually eating Zippy's finger, I was absolutely nauseous.

The carnivorous rabbit notwithstanding, I thoroughly enjoyed this book! It was fun and thought provoking and I'm glad I had the opportunity to read it.

--Karen Smith

Link to radio review of The Stranger

Link to Readers' Review of Albert Camus' The Stranger, which was discussed on the Diane Rehm Show on NPR back in September 2006. President Bush had been reading the book, which prompted Rehm to feature it on her radio show.

Danielle

Zippy - Karen Buxton

I didn't spent much time looking for hidden meanings, or "this is why
I'm the way I am" pronouncements. I think it's because I spent my
early childhood in a small town (population 500). The dogs and the
kids roamed the streets, there were nice homes, abandoned homes, as
well as many that should have been abandoned. My dad had a beer
every night, and didn't say a whole lot to my mother who spent the
first half of every day on the couch sick with asthma and back pain.
Sounds dreary, but I didn't see it that way. There was a lady (Mrs.
Robinson), that my friend and I liked to go and visit, who had at
least 15 dogs and more cats than could be counted. Of course the
thing that is engrained on my memory of my visits to her house is the
smell. Horrid! I've often wondered what eventually happened to her
and all of her animals. Speaking of smells...There was a family that
lived in town that had three daughters. The girls were always very
stinky. Occasionally they would come to primary, and during class
one day the girl my age took off her shoes, and stunk up the whole
room. I remember being pleasantly surprized, on another occasion,
when my mother and I went to their trailor, and the girls were taking
baths. My older sister, who is the same age as Kimmel, remembers
going to a friend's house for a sleepover. When it came time to go
to bed, the bed was covered with a huge pile of questionable laundry
(dirty? clean?). The two girls simply crawled under the pile of
laundry and went to sleep.

Anyway, enough reminiscing. I was interested in Danielle's comments
about the "car repair" episode. My impression of the event was that
he was not only getting frustrated with the project, but that Zippy
was driving him crazy with her questions etc. Her presence was not
helping the situation. I just figured that he was inviting her to
leave for her own well being. I didn't believe that he was going to
physically harm her, just throw a tantrum. Again, my impressions
might be coming from my own experiences. My dad was always fixing
the cars. It's always interesting how differently we all view the
same event. I appreciated Danielle's more positive take on the
episode.

I also very much enjoyed the pig story even though it was somewhat
troubling to me. I also got a kick out of the story about her
parents fighting and her mother riding away on Zippy's bike. There
were many humerous events as well as many tragedies. As a child she
wasn't necessarily aware of the humor or the tragedy, but as adults,
I'm sure that we more clearly see the absurdities, and the sorrows.

I've written much more than intended, and I hope I haven't bored any
of you with my own life history. Thanks for indulging me.

Yay for Zippy!

I love Zippy. I read it once before about five years ago- my Mom recommended it to me after her book club read it. That is why I recommended it for us. I had forgotten how truly wonderful it is. It was great fun to read again and rediscover Zippy. I also read the sequel so hopefully I will not get the two confused. The first is the best but the second still has the same flair.

It was interesting to read two memoirs in a row both wonderful in their own way. I was annoyed with Mike Ramsdell for jumping around the timeline in his story because I felt like he was covering something up. With Zippy it didn't bother me- she told the stories that connected to a theme for each chapter and she generally got older as the book went along but she definitely skipped around the timeline. I think that added to the ending feeling abrupt. But I think maybe she didn't want an ending. She wanted to leave us with a feeling of continuation- a feeling of future stories. This book was just a snippet - one facet in the kaleidoscope. I am amazed at how this book hangs together with no obvious direction. It is a memoir told from her young eyes and not her current eyes.

I love how innocent and oblivious she is. I love how active she is. I love her opinion of herself and of her family. I love that the whole town raised her since her parents couldn't. I think her relationship with her father is interesting because it is obviously not the norm for his relationships. He was a different Father to her than he was to her other siblings. She takes this for granted. He is a good father to her- I love it when he tells her to go away because he is frustrated with the car he is working on and is going to start swearing soon. There is something so sweet in that moment- so respectful of her and who she is and so representative of their relationship. He is imperfect and they both know it and accept it. There are boundaries to what she gets to see and what she doesn't. It isn't hidden from her but he is a better person when he is with her. I think it is funny how she feels encouraged to be a rebel by him. It makes her His Girl.

I love that she never sees herself as a victim. She describes some terrible conditions for a childhood and yet she remains impervious to them. She doesn't remember suffering because she wore the same pants all year long and the laundry never got done and the house is falling down and has no heat. Her mom was on the couch but that was comforting to her- she always knew where to find her. I can relate to this somewhat because my Mom was always on the couch with a good book while I was growing up too. Not because of depression but because of illness- repeated pneumonia and strep throat and those kinds of illnesses. My Mom was much more responsible for us- she always knew where we were and she kept the house pretty tidy (as tidy as possible with 4 rugrats tearing it apart all of the time). It makes me appreciate my Mom more- knowing now how ill she was and how hard it must have been for her to pick herself up and take care of us. I am impressed with Zippy for her lack of resentment and her innocent oblivion to how bad things must have been.

On of my favorite stories from this book is the one where she protects Rose from the band teacher. Rose didn't even tell her what was wrong- just that something was wrong and her Mom didn't believe her. Zippy figures it out sort of by thinking of the band teacher. She doesn't really understand but she knows that it can't continue. She uses her stubborn personality and protects her friend by staying and walking home with her everyday. She could have been putting herself in potential danger too but instead she bullies the band teacher. It's great! And she doesn't even quite realize what she has done. I also love that she punishes the band teacher for not letting her play drums ("because it is a boy instrument") by making him lug around the bells. I love that she her sense of what's right in the world and the way she follows it and stands up for it. Zippy addresses so many issues that we go through in our youth without making too big a deal out of any of them. And yet they shape her and who she is.

So this is not a very well written review- my thoughts are kind of disorganized today... and everyday... but hopefully it makes enough sense... I wish I could write like Haven...

Zippy

I have to say I was skeptical about this book at first. And the introduction that spoke about how here sister was just as skeptical about reading a story of a girl growing up in the middle of nowhere and no tragedy in her life...how interesting could that be?

In any case, I was surprised by this book. She relates such interesting stories and memories such as the pig hurling episode with such a tongue in cheek approach that you can hardly not smile at the thought of it. (My sensibilities tell me to be shocked, but I found my self laughing none the less.)

I also loved her candor in regards to so many different realities. One example of this was how she didn't want to be Dana's friend and vice versa and that her other best friends or the second best friends were quickly drawn away from her to this new girl. Etc... I loved the fight for no reason and how they made up and became friends again. Haven skirts around the idea that Dana's home life was different than hers but not that it was as bad as it really was...does any of this make sence? Anyway, she was able to intimate something different than what she is actually saying.

This was a fun and interesting read. I wish that I would be able to remember all the little stories of my childhood...I see pictures and I wonder sometimes what what happening that we needed to remember that moment. I guess my mind is going in my old age!

Thanks for the read!

Michelle

A Train...

I just wanted to first say that I needed to post for "A Train to Potevka" before I could step up to Zippy.

I really enjoyed this book. It had interesting stories and intrigue and held my interest. However, like so many of you, I found it difficult getting past the writing at times. He is a great story teller and the writing is just as though he were telling you the story as opposed to me reading the story.

I love spy stuff, so knowing that this was essentially a true story made it all the better. I have often wondered in my life what it would be like to be a spy in the truest sence of the word. Would it be hard to be LDS? Would there be a lot of intrigue? Where would I be, etc. Knowing me, however, I would have probably ended up in the middle of North Dakota translating something or other...not very exciting.

Thanks for having us read this. It was interesting to see the spy game in action.

Michelle

All is Zippy

I LOVED this book. It was thoroughly enjoyable. I was entranced by Zippy's childhood recollections. I remember reading a review of the book... "finally, a memoir about a happy childhood." I'll admit, I kept waiting for the "this is why I am the way I am" comments, but they never came (thank goodness).

I don't have my book in front of me, but I know I marked several different pages for one thing or another. Danielle P. said, "I delighted in the character's matter-of-fact approach to things, her mature yet childlike way of expressing herself." I noticed that as well. The author recounted events in an almost adult fashion, but with the innocence of youth. It takes talent to recount a story as a child would perceive events, but include enough information that an adult reader can understand between the lines.

I actually felt myself in the book - wishing I grew up in a small town like Zippy did. I remember mocking older people who "wished for a simpler time" and this was back when I was in high school. Now, I'm the one wishing for a simpler time, one in Mooreland with my family. Haven really knows how to tell a story. I've already purchased the next Zippy book.

I loved her relationships with her family, especially her dad. Aside from his drinking, gambling, etc., there were parts that reminded me of my own dad. I had pages marked as examples, but...

Good choice. Thanks Danielle W.

Zip, Zip Hooray!

I had the great fortune to listen to a Book on CD version of A Girl Named Zippy read by none other than the author herself. Though I am confident I would have laughed and cried as readily as I did had I read the print version, this audio book allowed me to feel somehow closer to the places and people the author described. I can still picture Zippy's mom curled up on the couch with a good book. I see her brother breaking down the bathroom door and slapping his sister. (An act, incidentally, I totally applauded when it happened, though I am a pacifist at heart.) Her father, too, with all those dogs in the front yard.

I began to listen to the book on a flight from Salt Lake to Dallas. I had to put it aside, however, when tears started running down my cheeks after hearing the letter Zippy's mother wrote when she thought her baby girl might die (hope I am remembering this right; it's been a few weeks since I read it). I knew I wouldn't be able to bawl properly on an airplane full of strangers. I also could not properly laugh aloud in a plane: One of the funniest scenes was when Zippy's best friend's mother (did I get that right?) got nailed by that pig running straight toward her and knocking her on her butt (or was it her face?).

Most of the book made me laugh and not cry, I am happy to say. I delighted in the character's matter-of-fact approach to things, her mature yet childlike way of expressing herself. And I really like how her character could have come off sounding really snotty and snobbish (since she was so smart), but I really loved the girl.

I also love hearing stories of the bond between father and daughter. It seemed the two in this book had a nice relationship; I sensed no anger or resentment from Zippy. She alluded a bit to her father's gambling and -- maybe drinking? -- problem but this didn't seem to interfere too much with her adoration of him.

I thought the book ended a bit abruptly. I didn't feel that crescendo before the resolution you get in a great book. Perhaps because there were so many crescendos in all the vignettes. Or perhaps I didn't want the book to end yet. In any case, I look forward to reading more from this author. It was a tidy and fast read with lots of laughter and color.

Finally read it!

Gina came to visit me and let me borrow the book. It is a very interesting book. I agree that it was not very well written in a technical sense but he can tell a story. He seems like someone who likes to talk and tell stories which seems an interesting characteristic for a spy. Though it seems his assignments were to teach and to negotiate or get info from people so the government used his personality to the best advantage.

I continued to be bugged by his jumpidnng around in the timeline but only where it concerned his romance with Bonnie. I felt like he was trying to hide his emotional infidelity to his first wife with the jumping around. I wonder just how close in age Bonnie and his son are too. I think he confused the time line somewhat to confuse the reader as to what was going on there. I don't think he needed to confuse that part of things. I don't think he was unfaithful to his first wife but I don't think he was ready to deal with the issues behind all of that in black and white writing.

I thought it was interesting when he talked about how his values as a church member were called into question at times on his missions. The untruthfulness in context of a mission would not have bothered me as much as the other possible problems like not being able to drink alcohol or Tea or other more serious issues that would make him stand out when he needed not to stand out. I wondered why he drank the black tea and not just the hot water but maybe the tea is just herbal or added some nutrients that I don't know about.

I too want to hear the story of Sasha and will have to look if he has written anything else! :) It is amazing to me how Mcdonald's is such a symbol of americanization and how loved and hated it is. Especially as it is something taken for granted here and not our most favorite example of our cuisine.

Sorry I am jumping around so much. I am writing this while keeping my son occupied too so I get distracted and then come back to it.... I was saddened by how untrustworthy the Russian people were. I worry that America is heading that direction more and more. People are a lot more guarded than they were when I was a child. I'm not sure there is truly justification for the change in attitude towards our neighbors. I don't think crime is any higher than it used to be - just different and more public knowledge. It's sad that urban legends of razor blades in Candy have now made trick or treating a thing of the past... that kind of thing makes me sad. Hopefully we will never get as bad as the society he described in Russia. anyway... enough of my ramblings.

very thought provoking book Gina- thanks for lending it to me. I will mail it back to you along with a few other things this week. :)

A Train to Potevka

I am sorry I haven't posted until now. I was able to lend the book to D so she'll be posting soon too... before our due date for the Zippy book.

Ramsdell did a great job for a "first book" and though it seemed a little rough starting out (because I am so used to seasoned writing), I got used to his style a couple chapters into it. It was an autobiography... a unique one. I've never read an autobiography before.

I was glad I had New Moon to read when I got bored with the back and forth of Ramsdell's life and then general Russian history. When he skipped to history I would put the book down and read New Moon. My husband kept making fun of me because it took him like 3 sittings to finish that book and it took me 3 weeks. I just wasn't in a hurry... what's wrong with that?

I haven't posted because everyone said what I wanted to say about the book. I had the same feelings about the scenerios that played out. What was the back story with his ex-wife, how old was Bonnie, what happened to that little boy who took them to the front of the McDonald's line and how was he compensated for being given the wrong orders and left to die of starvation? So many unknowns... makes me want to track Ramsdell down and interview him.

The main theme for me was how desperate the Russian people are... how blessed I am to live in the United States and have free reign over the food I eat and how much of it I have. I felt so humbled as Ramsdell was starving for so long and in the condition he was... I don't think I would have made it. I would have probably dropped myself in the deep snow and stayed there to fall into the slumber of death. I really think I would have.

My heart sunk when Ramsdell said that he never went back to Potevka... that he never was able to thank those kind strangers who showed they had compassion in his time of need. I am sure it broke his heart too, that he didn't revisit the woman that reminded him of his mother.

I have to thank my husband for recommending this book. I learned so much about the Russians and I hope to research their way of life even more.