It is finished

Finishing "Eclipse" was a relief to me. At this point, I am little over Bella and her twisted relationship. I don't call it twisted because he's a vampire. I call it twisted because she turns too often to guilt-tripping and codependent behaviors. Even the boys' manipulating turns me off.

I don't like how Bella thinks she has power over everyone else's feelings; none of us does. We are all responsible for our own. And all this "I can't live without you" talk is too sappy and nonsensical. Is the author trying to paint a relationship based on "true love"? If so, I think she needs a lesson on it herself. (Not that I know exactly what it is, but it seems like it's less clingy than what's pictured here.)

Another point: I am glad Bella is beginning to glimpse the real repercussions of what might happen if she becomes a vampire. I am surprised that that is not addressed more deeply -- or has not yet been. This willingness to give up her humanness, her "natural" soul, her family, all she knows, for this one man again hints of codependency.

On brighter notes: I am glad to see the author is improving in describing action scenes. In her past books, she's just skipped over them, beginning chapters with Bella waking up after all the action has taken place. And I liked the description of how the werewolves came to be. That story might even make up a novel all its own.

I am somewhat interested what will happen to Bella, Edward and Jacob in the future. But I am not holding my breath.

Final point: When Bella is menstruating, do you think Edward and the rest of the Cullens avoid her? Why has not the author delved into this?

Some of My thoughts on Eclipse

Sorry. I was on vacation for the last week and a half. Almost everyone I talked to on vacation liked the books. ;) Well everyone liked them but everyone argued about the best ending and about the characters. It was fun to hear other opinions and discuss the book in person. I think that we would have a lively discussion in person. That's one of the things I love about the book. Everyone has different allegiances because she hasn't made anyone a complete monster. Not all werewolves are bad, not all vampires are bad, not all humans are bad and yet each of them do monstrous things at various times.

I loved the relation between the vampires and the werewolves. I hope we will continue to find out more about that in the next book. I thought it was interesting that the werewolves believe they were created as protectors and the vampires simply sees them as volatile monsters. I don't understand the Cullens hatred of them. Especially when they are protecting people. The Cullens should support that. I liked the tenuous relationship that forms between them because they are fighting for the protection of their community(which for the vampires only means Bella).

I liked hearing Rosalie and Jasper's stories. I'm glad that Bella heard them. I still feel that Bella is too young to be making the decisions that she is making. I think her aversion to marriage showed that. I'm glad that in this book she struggled with her decisions and her eyes were opened up a little bit. I'm not convinced that she made the right decision. I can't help feeling the same sadness that Jacob and Rosalie do that Bella is going to give up her mortal life and experiences. I feel like she is eating to Fruit of the Tree of Eternal Life before she gets the chance to live and grow. True, she still will have the chance to grow and change- both Jasper and Edward have- but it takes a lot longer and she will be denied important experiences like the opportunity to have kids and family and friends(she will be limited to only the Cullens). I feel like the more mature person would have chosen the life with Jacob. The life with Edward may seem glamorous and he is a wonderful guy but it is extremely limited. The cons are greater than the pros. I think that Jacob has the potential to be as wonderful as Edward and I think her life would be happier because it would be filled with the people she loves not just the person she loves. With Jacob she could have taken the time to grow up before making a commitment. With Edward she is forced into an immediate decision(that's not his fault). The only reason that she shouldn't choose Jacob is because he didn't imprint with her.

I think that Edward is a drug to Bella. As a vampire he has been described as the perfect predator and part of that is his attractiveness to his prey. It is not something he controls but it is part of who he is. It is why he is so irresistible to her. She is like a drug to him too. They tend to be self-destructive together because of their two different worlds.

Ideally Edward would find a way to become Mortal and then Bella could truly choose. Then she wouldn't be blinded by the rush to stay young and beautiful. Then she wouldn't be blinded by his amazing good looks and vampire pheromones. Then she could enjoy all of life's experiences with him by her side. Then she would be making a true life decision rather than the fantasy one.

Not quite finished

I had to first read the other 2 books in this series. I am still working on Eclipse. I will post when I am done. I'm trying not to peek ahead at everyone's postings here!

Danielle

Eclipse

Ladies,

There are so many things I like about Eclipse. One is the title. How cool is it that Edward, the vampire, the cold creature of the night, eclipses Jacob who was Bella's sun! (see pages 599-600--Jacob, "He's like a drug for you. . . I would have been the air, the sun." Bella, "I used to think of you [as my personal sun]. You balanced out the clouds. . . ." Jacob, "The clouds I can handle. But I can't fight with an eclipse.") No sun can. The literary technique is just cool.

Second, as much as Bella's indecision about Jacob and Edward drove me crazy (she really acts like a self-centered teeny-bopper at times), I think I would have been madder if her decision to become a vampire had been made easily. This book really makes her LOOK: She is going to give up the ability to have children (Rosalie's story). That is HUGE. She is going to have to learn to control incredibly strong desires to do horrible things (Jasper's story and the new vampire, Bree). She really has to look at this. I know she dismisses it, but Edward is concerned about her SOUL. Her indecision finally makes me believe that she really understands that she is going to have to SACRIFICE something to be with Edward (page 589). If she hadn't valued Jacob, it would have been no sacrifice.

Third, Bella finally grows up and begins to think of others. Her decision to have a wedding for her parents and for Alice, her decision to be clear and honest with Jacob even if it hurts her, and most important, HER decision to wait to have sex until she and Edward are married (she finally cares about HIS soul page 620) demonstrates some maturity. She is going to need it to become a Cullen. (I know that the descriptions of her physical attraction to Edward are breath-taking and that is not so good for the target audience. I was grateful that Bella finally made the right choice. I can only hope that the teen-age target audience got the point that she was really making the BETTER choice no matter how strong her desires were.)

So, even though it drove me crazy, I think the conflict of Bella trying to figure out who she really is and who she really wants to become was important. (The two magnets she was trying to force together were two parts of herself, p. 608)

For those of you who don’t know, my husband, Rod, read the book as well (as did two sons and two daughters-in-law). We now have a family blog about this book—great conversations. I wanted to include Rod’s idea that the best way for this story to end would be for Edward to become mortal. Meyer hints at this on page 273 when Edward says, "If there were any way for me to become human for you--no matter what the price was, I would pay it." Interesting thought. (At that point in the book, he was the one making the sacrifices.)

Finally, KT . . . I really appreciated your sarcasm. You are right. Bella really doesn't appreciate what she has. Edward's willingness to sacrifice everything to see that she is truly happy is so intense. I can't wait to read the book from his perspective (if Meyer still plans to write it). I also look forward (I think) to the sequal, New Horizons (?) I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

I loved Eclipse!

I feel so warped being taken to Forks for 3 consecutive super-long books. It's been almost a week and I still can't snap out of that world. Once I think I am back to normal, I'll run into someone that has read all the books and get all wrapped up in it all over again.

Seriously, something is wrong with me! I relate to Bella on too many levels. I read Katie's post on Monday and thought, "Man, I can't write a review now! I've felt that kind of love for two people, having to choose one. She'll think I'm a total bimbo!" So there you have it. Once upon a time, I did have those deep torn feelings that Bella had for two special people (and similarly, they were both as understanding of my feelings for the other party - that good-bye scene with Jacob tore me up). Maybe that is why I am so warped by these books. It's taken me to a place I miss and don't want to think about at the same time. It's so surreal I can't even begin to explain myself.

So anyway, I appreciate Laurenda enlightening us on the "imprinting" question posed by Katie. I had D sitting next to me when we read Katie's post Monday night and we both agreed that he couldn't have imprinted on her, otherwise he would of had to let her know. It couldn't have been a secret anyway because Edward can read the pack's minds. He didn't keep any of Jacob's secrets from Bella.

And speaking of Edward, I am still in love with him... Yeah, he took a step back when being seduced and yeah, he let Bella figure out Jacob by herself, letting her go to La Push now and then (and later allowing Jacob to be the "space heater" inside her sleeping bag - YIKES). I don't think he was playing the manipulative game like Jacob was though. I seriously think Edward is just wise and mature enough to see the good intentions in people/creatures. Sure, he grew and matured because of the situations Bella put him in, but I think he would give the benefit of the doubt in any case. I doubt it has much to do with his age, but his ability to read minds. This in turn has made him a forgiving and compassionate character in this book

Thanks, Katie, for choosing this one. I didn't even start the original book assigned and it sounds like I didn't miss too much.

Eclipse...

Hello Ladies!

Okay, I have to start off by saying that I read this book like a crazy woman when it first came out and was fit to be tied that I had no one to talk to about it when I was done! lol. So, needless to say, I'm glad Katie chose this one (though I did read about a third-ish of Calamity Physics and its end, for which I can review it with this: GET TO THE POINT, Blue!!!!! Yegads. That girl cited more sources than half the academic history journals I had to read during grad school!!!! It dragged down the book and the story so much that you really didn't care who was killed and for what reason. I DID however, find the "final exam" at the end of the book funny. And that's my review of that book.)

Alrighty then. Eclipse. I, too, really liked this book because I was so curious as to how things were going to turn out and I like Stephenie Meyer, as a person (I've seen a couple of the interviews she's done for Borders, GMA, etc.) and as a writer.

That being said, man was I miffed when I was done reading it the first time (I'm currently re-reading it)!!!! In fact, I was like, "ARGHHHHH!" I felt that SM had made Jacob too much of a character in this book, had neutered Edward, and had notched up the whine factor for "poor" Bella. In fact, Bella was so guilt ridden and angst filled that at times I wanted both Edward and Jacob to leave her alone so she could find a good therapist!!! The girl, seriously, has issues (more than just hanging out with vampires and werewolves). She is too much a people pleaser for me to really feel that she knows what she wants at the tender age of 18...and this is spoken from a mega-people pleaser who is still reeling from an unfortunate photo event between my divorced parents at my wedding.

So, here's some of the things that I didn't like: I didn't like the fact that Jacob kissed Bella into recognizing she really LURVED him too. I should have known when we had the Wuthering Heights analogies that NO GOOD was going to happen to this little love triangle. But seriously, he had to kiss her before she realized she LOVED him? WHAT was THAT about????? I think that she kissed him and actually had, quite literally, a heated response; I don't know that I would classify that as love. As Katie said, WAY too Harlequin Romance for me. Once again, if Bella was so out of touch with her feelings for him that she had to be forced into admitting them...THERAPY! That's what she needs before she really commits to EITHER of them! And truthfully, I couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that Jacob was only 16, though he looked 25, and wasn't being considered a near date-rapist when he was forcing her to kiss him. That wasn't romantic to me at all. Yes, he acted foolish like a 16 year old in love for the first time, but the fact that his character is physically so strong made all that too creepy for me somehow. Just as Edward was seriously over-protective of Bella and often over-reacted, Jacob came off as some bad cologne that was sprayed on too strongly for my personal taste.

And Edward...of the three, I probably had the least problem with his character because I felt that he at least made some emotional progress. You really do have to allow the person you love to chose and he did that. I'm glad that he stuck to his guns about his morality (being that kind of guy). I'm still a little put off about Bella being so opposed to marriage, and at the end, I wanted to see her really embracing the idea of being married to Edward as opposed to the idea of having the wedding to say good-bye to friends/family and to please Alice and Edward.

Bella...was shrill and whiny to me. In Twilight, though she seemed klutzy, at least she seemed strong emotionally. Now, I realize that she's been through alot. But her character kind of regressed to me. I was often rolling my eyes at her antics. As I'm typing this, I think that the word that keeps coming to mind was that Bella was consciously selfish. She knew it and refers to it several times in the book, but still chooses that selfishness. Maybe that's what bugged me. I understand that in the end she was supposedly choosing, but I was mad at her character for agreeing with Jacob that he was more like "sun" and "natural" stuff, whereas her love and need for Edward was likened to a "drug". ugh.

I should mention that I'm writing this practically a MONTH after the book came out. Since I first read it, I've lurked on the Twilight Lexicon to see what other readers thought and I've read SM's website. She recently posted some FAQs about Eclipse that she heard repeatedly on her book signing tour, and she says that Jacob did NOT imprint on Bella. She agreed, too, that Jacob was playing dirty with Bella because in his mind, he was not only trying to win his first love's heart, but trying to save her life. And Bella had to go through all that so, as Katie and Karen had discussed, so she could see and recognize her choices and truly make the one that she wanted. All that extra input has been helping in this second reading, but still...I find myself rolling my eyes.

All that being said, I actually did like the book--quite a bit. I enjoyed that once again, I could totally submit and enter the world of Forks quite happily. I liked all the new things that we learned about Rosalie and Jasper, warring vampires and how to combat them, and about the werewolves in general, and I thought the conversation/negotiations about waiting until marriage was part of a relationship, especially when you have two moral compasses/generations at work. And most importantly, eyes rolling aside, I'm still excited about the next book. A year seems like a long time.

Great choice, Katie!!!! :)

Eclipse

I loved Eclipse, but I have serious problems with it. I'm not sure I liked it as much as Twilight and New Moon. Bella seemed much more whiny to me, and more wishy-washy. She seemed much stronger in Twilight. Maybe the trauma caused by Edward's leaving in New Moon has had a more profound effect than I thought.

Maybe I'm just a bitter old lady, but, poor Bella, choosing between two guys (please note the dripping sarcasm), and making them both suffer. Is that realistic? Or is it more like a harlequin novel? I had big problems with this. I spoke with Karen about it, and she mentioned that Bella has like Jacob in order for her to have a choice, to CHOOSE life as a vampire with full understanding of what she's giving up. I can kind of see that. However, at the same time, how can Edward be her soul mate if she is in love with Jacob...if Edward's her soul mate, how can a part of her (even a small part of her) prefer Jacob and wish that it was his arms she wanted to be in.

Laurenda sent me a link to a couple of interviews with Stephenie Meyer to help me come to terms with this Edward/Jacob dilemma. One discussion took place at a Borders in Sunset Hills, MO. To quote Meyer:
"If she (Bella) hadn't fully explored the idea of staying human, I don't think I'd be a very responsible parent - and I sort of feel like I'm her mom - to let her go ahead and choose to be with Edward without really looking at all the options." So, Karen hit Meyer's reasoning dead on. Still doesn't mean I like it.

I didn't like Jacob comparing Eward to a drug, and himself to the air and sun (yes, he's a teenage boy and has a lot of growing up to do).

Based on something my niece said, I want to pose a question. She asked whether Jacob would imprint and if he does, how will Bella react. My question is, what if he already has imprinted, and it's Bella? We only have Jacob's word that he hasn't imprinted. If he's imprinted with Bella, and he knows she's in love with Edward, would he tell her? I know he's had no shame in manipulating her in other ways, but imprinting is very serious to werewolves, and would that rejection be too much?