Words from Gina

I can't get over how great this book was. I just want to buy a million copies and hand them out on the street. I have felt so humbled as I have read this novel. My curiosity has gotten the better of me and I've tried to find more information on Sarah Prine. It bothered me that this was "based" on her life, but not her real journals word for word. The real Sarah Prine didn't have time to keep a journal, nor did she have the skill apparently. I just wanted validation that someone really faced each thing that she encountered with that kind of integrity. So I guess fictional or not, I want to be the hard worker, doting mother and loving wife that Sarah Prine was in this book.

In the whole wide world of information on the web, this is the only factual information I could find other than this blog entry by Nancy Turner herself:

The real Sarah Prine is third from the left. Young girl is Nancy Turner's mother at age 11. The tallest lady is Nancy's grandmother, teller of stories and baker of pies, and the lady on the far right is Nancy's great- great grandmother, Roxie Virginia Stockman Reed."

Now, On to the review...

#1--1st person vs. 3rd person narrator
I guess after reading the book narrated by Death, I much prefer 1st person perspective. I like that we know what Sarah's views and feelings are on the matters she faces... I didn't like the way Death interpreted people's actions and why they might have done what they had done. Sarah just stated the facts plain and simply. She didn't judge people unfairly in my opinion, she just followed her honest gut feelings and I think they served her very well. Even in the case of Felicity.

#7--themes: thirst for education, etc.
I don't think it was odd for Sarah to thirst for education like she did. Even in her day. She had an instinct for survival and education was something that would have a hand in her means to keep her family safe. I personally loved how she questioned the doctor's diagnosis and went to find more information on her own. Sure, the outcome wasn't what she had hoped, but she did the right thing and kept all kinds of information at her fingertip even prior to Suzanne's scarlet fever. Also, her realization (per Blue Horse) that education is like a tree... that will stick with me forever.

#2 and #4 together--the heroic in women's everyday lives
I agree with Katie here. All women are heroes. They are! Each of us has a mission in life and each of us has a special work ethic and distinct drive to survive and move forward. It's amazing what we can accomplish in a day, with horrible environments, relationships and whatever else that might make us "fit to be tied" as Sarah would say. I could totally imagine feeling as low as Sarah did after Jimmy died. How did she keep going with a small baby and all that work on the ranch? I think if we each knew what each of us faces, we'd wonder how each of us could move forward as well. But we do and we survive and we are stronger for it.

#9 and #11 together--the relationship of Sarah and Jack
Passionate. Unique. Equal. Unconditional.
I found their relationship so humorous. I could tell they'd eventually end up together because she was always so peeved by him. And even when they were married she'd disown him on every other journal entry. Their chemistry was just wonderful and even though Jack's good-bye was heartbreaking, I knew she'd survive and be fine, just like he did.

My words!

What a delightful read! I not only had the print version but the book-on-CD version, so I got to "hear" Sarah's words as well as read them. I suspect, however, that this double-reading of sorts may have prevented me from seeing Sarah's spelling improve over the course of her story. I would happily read the follow-ups to this story, as Amanda tells me they exist. That makes me happy. For now, I will tackle the questions and wax academic.

1. Had it been written in the third-person, this book would change my relationship with Sarah and the other characters. It's hard to say if those relationships would change for the worse. Would I not feel as close to Sarah if I didn't get to read her, writing nakedly in black and white? In terms of character, there can be a sense of mystery in novels that use the third-person. The reader cannot know all a particular character is thinking. (Of course, the same could be argued for first-person narratives. But first-person points of view do tend to reveal more of an honest character: how she thinks and feels, for one.) Third-persons can leave the reader guessing. With Sarah, we did not have to guess how she truly felt about things. She was so frank in her journal (and with others). On the other hand, third-person narratives can be more illuminating when it comes to action. In this novel, the reader might have more information about what exactly Jack was doing out there in Mexico. We might have gotten more history had this book been written from a third-person point of view. I think I have successfully written in the first-, second-, and third-people (!) in this answer.

2. I don't remember exactly how education changes Sarah, besides the fact that she derives a sense of pride from her academic accomplishments. And, as I alluded to earlier, it may have improved her spelling. Education certainly changes her family; her brother went on to become an architect in San Francisco. Sarah's mentions of the Board of Normal Education and the new university in Arizona lead me to believe that she will further pursue her own studies. It seems to me, though, that her greatest "education" was not academic but experiential. Her life itself was her university. Her classes were not Art History or German, but Economics, History of the American West, Botany, Animal Husbandry. I got a great sense of her awe and wonder toward education, and her accomplishments in life as well as "school" prove to me that her mind was top-notch.

3. A physically handicapped friend (she had no use of her arms and used a wheelchair to convey herself) once complained to her mother on the phone: "I'm not special. I just do what I need to do every day to survive." She was griping about her alma mater's recent invitation to come and speak to graduates at an upcoming ceremony. I compare this attitude (of humility, perhaps?) to that of Sarah's in a way. Sarah had little choice but to do what she did to survive. Fortunately, she had enough steel and wits to make it a success. Did Sarah have determination and courage, as the back of this book describes heroism? I felt she did. She was very resilient. At many points, she could have just given up. But she had this sense of determination that was intense. She just kept putting one foot in front of the other, even though she was scared. And that's courage in my book. As for her mother, it seems like it was self-preservation that led her to isolate herself. She eventually healed. But I have to note that she did so only when someone else (Sarah) "dropped the ball." Her mother had to step up. I think that is how many of us grow: When we have to step up and take responsibility.

4. Sarah and Jack are up there with Jane and Mr. Rochester, Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy. The spark between them was palpable. As for the time-pieces, I guess the obvious answer is that they were always waiting for each other. Sarah had to wait for Jack to come home all the time. Jack had to wait for Sarah to realize she was in love with him. (And also for her husband to die!) I think also they knew their time together was precious. They always had an eye on it.
The book, "The Duchess," was just a fabulous inclusion. It seemed that as long as Jack had the book, he had a part of Sarah. At first, it seemed a sort of insurance policy. He knew how she longed for the book. She would always pursue it. I think, too, the promises and wonder of that single torn page really gave Sarah a sense of hope of things to come, of possibilities. I think her horizon opened tremendously just from that single page. Her sense of wonder, too, at this page, revealed an innocence and tenderness that really made her a lovable character. Consequently, it was a lovable book.

These Is My Words...

I LOVED this book. I would look at it every time I was in a bookstore, but for some reason, I would never buy it. So, thank you Karen for making me finally buy it. I will go ahead and address the questions Karen wanted us to discuss.

1. 1st person vs. 3rd person narration: The question at the back of the book states “…one may feel that Sarah is neither honest with herself nor correctly interpreting others’ actions or feelings.” Well, isn’t that real life? We all live our lives in our own 1st person. We all interpret others’ actions and feelings based on our own experiences. People can experience the same event without experiencing the same event. We all have our experiences, thoughts, knowledge, etc., which influence how we interpret what happens around us and to us. I liked that it was in 1st person. I loved that everyone around Sarah knew that Jack was in love with her, but Sarah didn’t see it? On March 28, 1882, Captain Elliot came to visit. Mama kept telling Sarah to fetch him stuff, but also to comb her hair. Savannah helps Sarah “spruce up.” On July 4, 1882, Savannah “accidentally” slops milk all over Sarah’s work dress, then tells Sarah that her other work dress was covered with mud so that Sarah will have to wear her new dress during another Captain Elliot visit. I learned more about Sarah from how she saw things around her than I would have learned, I think, from an all-knowing third person explaining Sarah.

2. Sarah’s thirst for education: Sarah’s education changed the whole book…literally. Sarah’s diary entries at the beginning of the book are grammatically rough. As she reads and learns, her narration improves. I’m glad Sarah wanted to improve herself – she wasn’t going to resign herself to her lot in life. However, I think Jack said it best (August 28, 1886), “Education doesn’t keep a person from being a fool, and the lack of it doesn’t keep a person from being intelligent.” Seeking education is a good pursuit – however, being educated doesn’t make one smart.

3. The heroic in women’s everyday lives: I think every woman is heroic. Let’s start with Sarah – a couple of events stand out. The first one is when she defends Savannah and her sisters from those filthy men. And although I don’t agree with Ulyssa’s not fighting back, isn’t she a heroine for living her Quaker beliefs even in the direst of circumstances? The second event that show’s Sarah’s heroism is the fact that she eventually forgives Jimmy. He was the person she should have been able to trust the most, but he ended up betraying her (from the beginning). It took awhile, and it took some suffering, but she ended up forgiving him in the end. There’s a paragraph Sarah writes on October 6. 1887: “After I got my bread dough set to rising, I cleared off the table of flour and got out my gun cleaning rags and brushes and oil, and made sure I was ready for trouble.” Sarah had to cook, clean and then “be prepared for trouble.” Although women today don’t necessarily need to cook from scratch or clean their guns, they still need to defend their homes from outside dangers. Mother’s today have the same desires as Sarah, I think, “[o]ur children weigh hard on my heart, and thinking about them growing up honest and healthy, or just living to grow up at all, makes a load in my chest that is bigger than the safe at the back, and more valuable than all the gold inside it.” I don’t have children, but I have the same desires for my nieces, nephews and their children.

4. The relationship between Sarah and Jack: I thoroughly enjoyed the relationship between Sarah and Jack. They were each so independent, yet dependent on their love for each other. It gladdened my heart watching Jack treat her like an equal, not like a possession – not only did Jack treat her like an equal, she acted like an equal. I’m glad that Sarah finally got the experience the kind of love that she envied so much watching Albert and Savannah. I enjoyed watching Jack tease her, I enjoyed the fact that Sarah’s family kept trying to push her into a relationship with him, but she had no clue. The reading group question at the end of the book asks, “What is the significance of Jack and Sarah exchanging time pieces for their wedding gifts to each other?” What do you guys think?

The Book Thief (Karen Buxton)

I'm finally posting again after a very long break. With our move and
all of the things that are to be done, I haven't had much time to
read, but I did slowly make my way through this book. I really
really liked it. I think that I'd now be pretty good at swearing in
German, but I'll refrain.

I thought Gina's comments about listening to the book on CD were
interesting. I don't think that I would have liked listening to a
creepy guy read to me. I read through the author's comments at the
end of the book, and he mentioned that he kept revising Death's
character and personality so that it wasn't so creepy. It's
interesting that the publishers chose someone with such a voice.

Anyway, I loved learning about what it must have been like living as
a citizen in Nazi Germany. I really enjoyed reading the "Children of
the Promise" series for that same reason. Especially post war era in
East Germany.

Personally, I really liked Rosa. She seemed so gruff and angry, but
stereotypically thoses sorts are soft and loveable on the inside.
Hans, of course, was the ideal father figure. He was kind,
compasionate, with an endless ability to love. I don't believe that
he used Leisle as a replacement for his own children, she needed to
be loved, and he needed to love.

I was heartbroken that Rudy died, but prepared for it. I several
times in the book figured that Max and Leisle would find each other
in the end, but the author was never really said that they married.
That was my assumption considering that she spent the remainder of
her life in Sydney. I was left wanting to know more about her adult
life and marriage.

I've had the opportunity to visit Dachau. As I read, I remembered
the feelings that I felt in that place, and wondered how the the
German people felt as they passed by it while it still held
prisoners. It's a sacred place where many people grew to know there
God through their suffering.

I always post so late, that there really isn't anything that I might
add that hasn't been said already. Thanks for the great book picks.

The Book Thief

"They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
~Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)



I'm sorry not to have posted sooner, especially since I am the one who chose the book (yeesh!). This book was fascinating to me and, when describing it to various friends, the best words that I've come up to describe it are just that: "interesting" and "fascinating".


That being said, I have a true confession: I am a notorious End-of-the-Book reader, so to have Death "spoil" the ending for me was WEIRD! lol. Seriously, I went to the back of the book and SURE ENOUGH, the bomb struck, "Papa" died, Rudy died...the devastation occurred, just like Death said. Huh, I thought. And I have to admit, being a notorious End-of-the-Book reader, it DID change the way I read the book--in fact, it took something out of it for me. I know, it's COMPLETELY hypocritical, but true and I'm not really sure why it felt like that. Often, I read the end of the book because (as in the case of the Harry Potters or Eclipse, etc.,) I've gotten so involved (or obsessed!) in the story/characters that I start going a little wonky NOT knowing what's going to happen. So, with this book, KNOWING what's happening from the very very start messed with my head; so, even though I really really liked it, I didn't enjoy reading it as much as I wanted to, if that makes any sense. Probably not, but that's how weird I am. So anyways, it really became a bittersweet read knowing how much Liesel was going to lose at then end, and I had to focus on the hope element that also ran throughout the book.

I enjoyed Death as the narrator (and loved Katie's review using the different breaks that were used...inspired, Miss Katie!) and thought how "interesting" to have that perspective...a third party trying to be detached and yet still emotionally involved telling the story and offering insights and helpful translations! (though I could see where a creepy-voiced Death on the audio would have been distracting to the poetical nuances that Death was so often spouting). The illustrations were a really interesting touch, too, didn't you think?


I think I must have unconsciously selected this book because of its subject matter--it brought back all the stuff I learned when I got my degree in history, as The Holocaust was my area of emphasis. Even then, the topic was is such a dark place to be so immersed and full of sadness that I found myself looking for the bits of light of the era: the Resistance movement, survival stories, common links of humanity. That being said, the book really does effectively illustrate all of that: the lowest levels we can sink to if we don't check ourselves and keep ourselves awake to what is happening around us, but also the startling acts that reveal the very best of humanity that any person is capable of (Rosa).

I felt the book was also true to the feelings that most Germans had--of accepting things that normally would have appalled them, because they seemed to happen, little by little, until it was too late. Also, amid all the denial that was going on was just LIFE...a boy wanting to kiss a girl, friendships, sports.... We get the same way, don't we? Preoccupied in what we are doing, places we need to go, things we need to do, and even the fear of getting involved, that we don't pay attention to our literal and figurative surroundings. Furthermore, the Germans at the time were still recovering WWI's devastation (Death tries to capture that when characterizing Hans, I think) and the world wide Great Depression that affected them not only because they were so in debt after the war, but because there was such loss of life and employment! The atmosphere in Germany seemed to not only crush them physically but emotionally and mentally, so of course Hitler was able to come to power; he seemed like a charismatic light that would indeed bring about change, bring back their sense of "volk" and pride. Lots of his early ideas fit the mood of the people and, especially, became in sync with their need to blame SOMEONE for their plight.

Alrighty then. So now that I've digressed into a mini history lesson, let me just get back on target and say that this book helped me remember a lot and that context helped enrich the book for me.

I read somewhere that Markus Zusak has written other, critically claimed books for young adults, but actually wrote this with an older audience in mind. I think that was evident in the overall mood of the book and think that it might be a bit much for a younger audience to handle (there was, after all, more swearing than I expected...sorry about that if it offended anyone). But I LOVE the Non Sequitur cartoon Gina posted!!!! LOVED IT!!!! Because Liesels' story is much like the tattoo of the number of the old Holocaust Survivor...it helps us remember, and hopefully look at our world around us today. And for that, I enjoyed and appreciated this book.

:) Laurenda

I finally finished The Book Theif

I wish I had actually read this book. I instead listened to it on CD in my car for over a month... as my commutes are no longer than 12 minutes each. Yeah, so it took a long time to "read" the book and the narrator had such a creepy voice, I didn't enjoy the book as much as I think I could have. At the end, he thanked me for listening to the performance. He indeed gave me a performance. With his creepy German accent he would alter his voice for each of the characters in the book. Can you imagine Leisel having a high pitched old man voice? Yeah, it ain't pretty. I'd rather hear a more innocent voice made up in my head as I scanned actual pages of the book.

So anyway, you'll understand why I didn't love the book as much as the rest of you, but I did like it.

I need to buy this book just to reread the beautiful descriptive phrases and words this author uses. Such poetry, really. I was so touched by how Death himself would eloquently describe we humans.

I wasn't convinced that Leisel knew herself so well as a child that she understood every action she would make, though. I think Death was a witness and a major interpreter of what we humans are thinking, more specifically what Leisel was thinking. I hope you understand what I mean. I don't have a book to show examples of times that Leisel would do or say certain things, as a child, and we'd be given an explanation of why she did or said it that way. As if a child knows them self as well as an a middle-age adult. Or maybe I am undermining children... maybe Leisel did understand why she did the things she did. Who am I to judge a fictional character. What do you think?

My favorite character of the book was Hans. He was so warm and unconditionally there for Leisel. I loved how he kept Leisel's secrets, how he was more than a father to her, but the closest confidant. I am sorry to report that Rosa never grew on me. Maybe it was because of the cardboard description of her, maybe it was the creepy German guy impersonating her saying zowchel a million times, I just didn't connect with her lack of affection. Yes, she took care of her family, yes, she hid a Jew, but she still was so hard. I wish I liked her better after a month long getting-to-know-you in my car.

I learned much from this book. I agree with Amanda that it was an education on the people of that time and place, not just facts about the Holocaust. We know what happened from our history classes, but we didn't get a feel for the lives of those innocent Germans that didn't agree with what was happening. This book gave us that!

I can only imagine something so horrific occurring in our modern day, in our country (it was, in fact, their modern day and in their country). It's given me perspective on my own convictions and how far I would go to stand for the right. I hope that I would do what the Hubbermanns' did for Max. I would hope that if my religion was questioned and they came for all the Latter-Day Saints, that I would suffer and even die standing up for it.

Click to enlarge.

The Book Thief or The Tear Maker?

I finished reading The Book Thief on the airplane the day that our co-worker Curtis Cloud died. I couldn't help but wonder if the narrator "Death" was there with Curtis and what color the sky was. And at the thought of this, combined with the fictional deaths of Rudy, Mama and Papa, I had the tears flowing and no kleenex in sight. I had to use the cocktail napkin from my drink to sop up the tears and mascara.
How long did it take anyone else to know who the narrator was? I had to re-read the first 2 short chapters again just to get that understanding but from there I throughly enjoyed the short style of the chapters and the oftentimes humorous but telling asterisk marked statements from Death. I was also struck by the thought that we don't often hear the side from the Germans in Nazi Germany during this time. Most of us have read Anne Frank and other stories that show us the Jewish or outcast viewpoint. I am again amazed at how the power of persuasion and fear can make humans forget their innate goodness and commit attrocities in the name of righteousness.
Liesel had a horrible life and I can imagine that her story happened to many people including those that belonged to the Nazi Party. I was struck by Frau Hoptzanful (sp?) and that for all of her heil Hitlers, she lost her 2 sons and her own life. It didn't matter what side she was on, Death takes no sides in war.
Argh, I didn't mean this to be a diatribe about War and the horror of it. I loved this book and I found many parts that were funny and heartwarming. Such as Rudy's love of Jesse Owens and how he ran painted in coal just to be like him. I loved the interactions between Liesel and Rudy, Liesel and Papa, Liesel and Mama, pretty much any interaction with Liesel. Who else wanted to know more about what happened to Liesel after the pivotal moment of the airraid? We got a lot of before the bombs but not a lot of the after. I want to know how Liesel went from the Mayor's house to apparently working for Mr. Steiner and then her relationship with Max. Did she marry Max? Who else thought she should marry Max?
Again, I love this book and I learned a lot about this time period but in a very human and contextual way, not in the history book sort of way.

The Book Thief

I thought this was a painfully beautiful book. Death talks about that at the end of the book actually- which I thought a little cocky of the author but still true. Death says, "I wanted to ask her how the same thing could be so ugly and so glorious, and its words and stories so damning and brilliant. " The truth behind it comes from the contrast of human actions. There are the cowards and the vicious. There are also the heroes who are all the more heroic in the face of crisis and danger.

I was struck by how precarious a position the Hubermanns were in . While I can't understand how a nation ever let their hate get to this point I do understand why at that point so few were willing to take action. I am amazed by those like the Hubermanns were willing to risk the lives of their families to save a few souls. I hope that I would do the same. I hope that I would prevent the situation from getting that bad in the first place. I was amazed at how quickly the people would turn on each other. I thought it most revealing when it talked about how Rudy's dad felt about the Jews being kicked out and when Hans jr. voiced his opinions. You could hear the propaganda that spouted fear. I thought it interesting too that kicking the Jews out took away Herr Steiner's competition and also his paying customers. The war furthered that even more. So what he had originally feared ( no work) came to pass because they kicked the Jews out. Hans Jr. was exceptionally brutal especially because of the contrast between him and his Dad. He is quoted as saying,"It's pathetic - how a man can stand by and do nothing as a whole nation cleans out the garbage and makes itself great. " It reminded me of the rhetoric against illegal aliens in our country. Now don't get me wrong- I do think that we need to protect our borders better. But blaming all of our country's problems or our personal financial troubles on a group of people gets a little too close to what the Germans did to the Jews and anyone who helped them. At least that's how it started. Indifference and the building of fear kept it escalating. I'm thankful for the many opinions in our country and the loud voices that keep us on the straight and narrow- for the most part.

Anyway I enjoyed this book. I enjoyed it's perspective though it was very hard to read at times because because of the tragedy of it. I've been having weird dreams where we need food storage ever since. I think it's a combination of things making that happen but still... it's good advice to myself in my sleep. :) We are having a preparedness expo this weekend where I plan on gathering lots of good info.

These Is My Words

Karen would like us to focus on the following questions for the review of These Is My Words...

There are 12 discussion questions at the end. I would like to propose that we focus on the following questions in the order listed.

#1--1st person vs. 3rd person narrator
#7--themes: thirst for education, etc.
#2 and #4 together--the heroic in women's everyday lives
#9 and #11 together--the relationship of Sarah and Jack

The Book Thief

* * * Death as the Narrator * * *
A intriguing literary tool, providing powerful
insights into human nature while still being
(somewhat) detached from human follies (“I guess
humans like to watch a little destruction”).

I found everything about this book to be captivating – the narrator, the way the chapters were broken up, the use of the * * * breaks * * * to further explain detail, but mostly the characters. I grew to love the characters – some, of course, being easier to love than others – Hans, the mayor’s wife, Rudy, Liesel and Max, and even Rosa – who stood by her husband in his quest to do the right thing.

I marked up much of this book. I loved the way the author described everyday, mundane things – using unique adjectives, using adjectives in direct opposition to what is being described, or giving inanimate objects movement. Examples:
“shivering snow,” “chips of rain,” “He smiled loudest… ,” “, shivered like the future,”
“A gang of tears trudged from her eyes… ,” pg. 28
“…due primarily to the brute strength of the man’s gentleness… ,” pg. 36
“Hans Hubermann wore a face with the shades pulled down. ,” pg. 63
“The horizon was the color of milk. Cold and Fresh. ,” pg. 175
“[Liesel could…] taste the human flavor of [Max’s] words. ,” pg. 218
“The words landed on the table and positioned themselves in the middle. ,” pg. 330
“…she woke up tasting the sound of he accordion in her ears. ,” pg. 358
“Rudy’s voice reached over and handed Liesel the truth. For a while, it sat on her shoulder, but a few thoughts later, it made its way to her ear. ,” pg. 364
“When [Papa] looks at me and smiles and breathes, I hear the notes. ,” pg. 527

I’ve always been fascinated with WWII, and greatly angered by it, as well. Each time I study it, read about it, or whatever, I think of three questions: 1. What causes that kind of hatred against an entire group of people (slaves in America, the Civil Rights movement, etc.)? 2. How can that many people be influenced by that kind of hatred? 3. What would I have done if I were a German during this time? I hope I would have been like Hans – disgusted with what I saw and wanting to do the right thing, no matter the risk. Another thing that amazes me about WWII is what people could live through. Max spent months locked up in a house, never going outside, afraid for his life – but yet, he was living.

Death gave us a lot of information in advance, which added to the bitterness of the story (“Of course, I’m being rude. I’m spoiling the ending… ,” pg. 243). Rudy’s a great example. Death foretold what would happen to Rudy before we were done learning to love him. After knowing what happened to Rudy, each moment he spent with Liesel was bittersweet for the reader.

My final question is this: What color will everything be at that moment when [death] come[s] for [me]?

It is finished

Finishing "Eclipse" was a relief to me. At this point, I am little over Bella and her twisted relationship. I don't call it twisted because he's a vampire. I call it twisted because she turns too often to guilt-tripping and codependent behaviors. Even the boys' manipulating turns me off.

I don't like how Bella thinks she has power over everyone else's feelings; none of us does. We are all responsible for our own. And all this "I can't live without you" talk is too sappy and nonsensical. Is the author trying to paint a relationship based on "true love"? If so, I think she needs a lesson on it herself. (Not that I know exactly what it is, but it seems like it's less clingy than what's pictured here.)

Another point: I am glad Bella is beginning to glimpse the real repercussions of what might happen if she becomes a vampire. I am surprised that that is not addressed more deeply -- or has not yet been. This willingness to give up her humanness, her "natural" soul, her family, all she knows, for this one man again hints of codependency.

On brighter notes: I am glad to see the author is improving in describing action scenes. In her past books, she's just skipped over them, beginning chapters with Bella waking up after all the action has taken place. And I liked the description of how the werewolves came to be. That story might even make up a novel all its own.

I am somewhat interested what will happen to Bella, Edward and Jacob in the future. But I am not holding my breath.

Final point: When Bella is menstruating, do you think Edward and the rest of the Cullens avoid her? Why has not the author delved into this?

Some of My thoughts on Eclipse

Sorry. I was on vacation for the last week and a half. Almost everyone I talked to on vacation liked the books. ;) Well everyone liked them but everyone argued about the best ending and about the characters. It was fun to hear other opinions and discuss the book in person. I think that we would have a lively discussion in person. That's one of the things I love about the book. Everyone has different allegiances because she hasn't made anyone a complete monster. Not all werewolves are bad, not all vampires are bad, not all humans are bad and yet each of them do monstrous things at various times.

I loved the relation between the vampires and the werewolves. I hope we will continue to find out more about that in the next book. I thought it was interesting that the werewolves believe they were created as protectors and the vampires simply sees them as volatile monsters. I don't understand the Cullens hatred of them. Especially when they are protecting people. The Cullens should support that. I liked the tenuous relationship that forms between them because they are fighting for the protection of their community(which for the vampires only means Bella).

I liked hearing Rosalie and Jasper's stories. I'm glad that Bella heard them. I still feel that Bella is too young to be making the decisions that she is making. I think her aversion to marriage showed that. I'm glad that in this book she struggled with her decisions and her eyes were opened up a little bit. I'm not convinced that she made the right decision. I can't help feeling the same sadness that Jacob and Rosalie do that Bella is going to give up her mortal life and experiences. I feel like she is eating to Fruit of the Tree of Eternal Life before she gets the chance to live and grow. True, she still will have the chance to grow and change- both Jasper and Edward have- but it takes a lot longer and she will be denied important experiences like the opportunity to have kids and family and friends(she will be limited to only the Cullens). I feel like the more mature person would have chosen the life with Jacob. The life with Edward may seem glamorous and he is a wonderful guy but it is extremely limited. The cons are greater than the pros. I think that Jacob has the potential to be as wonderful as Edward and I think her life would be happier because it would be filled with the people she loves not just the person she loves. With Jacob she could have taken the time to grow up before making a commitment. With Edward she is forced into an immediate decision(that's not his fault). The only reason that she shouldn't choose Jacob is because he didn't imprint with her.

I think that Edward is a drug to Bella. As a vampire he has been described as the perfect predator and part of that is his attractiveness to his prey. It is not something he controls but it is part of who he is. It is why he is so irresistible to her. She is like a drug to him too. They tend to be self-destructive together because of their two different worlds.

Ideally Edward would find a way to become Mortal and then Bella could truly choose. Then she wouldn't be blinded by the rush to stay young and beautiful. Then she wouldn't be blinded by his amazing good looks and vampire pheromones. Then she could enjoy all of life's experiences with him by her side. Then she would be making a true life decision rather than the fantasy one.

Not quite finished

I had to first read the other 2 books in this series. I am still working on Eclipse. I will post when I am done. I'm trying not to peek ahead at everyone's postings here!

Danielle

Eclipse

Ladies,

There are so many things I like about Eclipse. One is the title. How cool is it that Edward, the vampire, the cold creature of the night, eclipses Jacob who was Bella's sun! (see pages 599-600--Jacob, "He's like a drug for you. . . I would have been the air, the sun." Bella, "I used to think of you [as my personal sun]. You balanced out the clouds. . . ." Jacob, "The clouds I can handle. But I can't fight with an eclipse.") No sun can. The literary technique is just cool.

Second, as much as Bella's indecision about Jacob and Edward drove me crazy (she really acts like a self-centered teeny-bopper at times), I think I would have been madder if her decision to become a vampire had been made easily. This book really makes her LOOK: She is going to give up the ability to have children (Rosalie's story). That is HUGE. She is going to have to learn to control incredibly strong desires to do horrible things (Jasper's story and the new vampire, Bree). She really has to look at this. I know she dismisses it, but Edward is concerned about her SOUL. Her indecision finally makes me believe that she really understands that she is going to have to SACRIFICE something to be with Edward (page 589). If she hadn't valued Jacob, it would have been no sacrifice.

Third, Bella finally grows up and begins to think of others. Her decision to have a wedding for her parents and for Alice, her decision to be clear and honest with Jacob even if it hurts her, and most important, HER decision to wait to have sex until she and Edward are married (she finally cares about HIS soul page 620) demonstrates some maturity. She is going to need it to become a Cullen. (I know that the descriptions of her physical attraction to Edward are breath-taking and that is not so good for the target audience. I was grateful that Bella finally made the right choice. I can only hope that the teen-age target audience got the point that she was really making the BETTER choice no matter how strong her desires were.)

So, even though it drove me crazy, I think the conflict of Bella trying to figure out who she really is and who she really wants to become was important. (The two magnets she was trying to force together were two parts of herself, p. 608)

For those of you who don’t know, my husband, Rod, read the book as well (as did two sons and two daughters-in-law). We now have a family blog about this book—great conversations. I wanted to include Rod’s idea that the best way for this story to end would be for Edward to become mortal. Meyer hints at this on page 273 when Edward says, "If there were any way for me to become human for you--no matter what the price was, I would pay it." Interesting thought. (At that point in the book, he was the one making the sacrifices.)

Finally, KT . . . I really appreciated your sarcasm. You are right. Bella really doesn't appreciate what she has. Edward's willingness to sacrifice everything to see that she is truly happy is so intense. I can't wait to read the book from his perspective (if Meyer still plans to write it). I also look forward (I think) to the sequal, New Horizons (?) I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.